Flags and Ensigns or Divisions and Signs

by Thirdson 3 Replies latest jw friends

  • Thirdson
    Thirdson

    A new poster to this board claimed this is not an official Witness site because of the flag displayed here. One of the big JW problems has been with flags. The right not to have to salute a flag has been claimed as a big freedom victory. I don’t know when the WTS and JWs began having problems with national, state and other flags but it certainly proved to be a big cause of self-induced persecution.

    What we tend to forget or not even know is that the WTS have hidden flag waving Israelites from the Bible. This is the NWT version of Numbers 2: 1,2:

    Jehovah now spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying: "The sons of Israel should encamp, each man by his [three-tribe] division, by the signs for the house of their fathers. Round about in front of the tent of meeting they should encamp. NWT

    The footnote to this scripture and signs is this:

    "By the signs." Heb., ve´o·thoth'

    A link to the Insight book states:

    A sign of a literal or symbolic nature could serve as an identification.-Nu 2:2; Ex 12:13.
    Vol 2 page 941

    So according to the NWT each Israelite camped by his division and sign. But what is a sign and a divison. According to other translations they translate the passage in Nu 2:2 thus:

    Every man of the children of Israel shall pitch by his own standard, with the ensign of their father's house: far off about the tabernacle of the congregation shall they pitch. -- King James

    The children of Israel shall encamp every man by his own standard, with the ensigns of their fathers' houses: over against the tent of meeting shall they encamp round about. –ASV

    The Israelites are to camp around the Tent of Meeting some distance from it, each man under his standard with the banners of his family." NIV

    “Each tribe will have its own tent area, with its flagpole and tribal banner;..” Living Bible

    2. |0376| Every man |1714| beside his own standard, |0226| with the ensigns |1004| of household |0001|Strong’s

    Strong's Ref. 1714 - Romanized degel, Pronounced deh'-gel

    from HSN1713; a flag:

    KJV--banner, standard.

    Strong's Ref. # 226 - Romanized 'owth, Pronounced oth

    probably from HSN0225 (in the sense of appearing); a signal (literally or figuratively), as a flag, beacon, monument, omen, prodigy, evidence, etc.:

    KJV--mark, miracle, (en-)sign, token.

    Everyone else says, flag, banner or ensign. I suppose the WTS can’t say flag because the argumant that it is an idolatrous symbol can’t be used here. Why? Because the second commandment forbids idolatry but the Israelites were not condemned for raising flags and banners but actually commanded to raise them and use them. Once again the WTS resorts to deceptive translation to justify their doctrines.

    The flag on this board serves as an identification of those who support freedom. Keep it there.

    Thirdson

    'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'

  • HappyHeathen
    HappyHeathen

    Hey, thanks for the info. This is interesting stuff!

  • MacHislopp
    MacHislopp

    Hello Thirdson,

    thanks for the post. Although this point ,

    was already known your reminder is E X C E L L E N T!!!

    Very accurate research, and very logical comments.

    I'm sure that over the USA, this could become, again a very

    serious problem ...!

    I'll keep it for my files. Thanks again,

    greetings, J.C.MacHislopp

    " One who has an accurate knowledge
    of God's Word will have no problem
    in refuting false religious ideas".

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    Excellent comments Thirdson.

    However, I also agree with a person's right to respectfully decline to salute the flag if that person so wishes. There are many ways people choose to show appreciation for the land in which they reside or were born in, and ultimately living as a good citizen respecting his community and country means much more than just saluting a flag.

    I also feel that extreme patriotism which goes beyond respecting and appreciating one's country and any benefits it offers it's citizens breeds hate and arrogance and seeks to elevate one country above another in a world community where we are striving toward equality.

    Personally I disagree with the banner of american colours combined with the words "support freedom" being displayed on this site. American freedom where people walk the streets with guns and sleep next to their guns and are rightly fearful of terrorist attack or attack from their own countrymen, is not the freedom I want.

    If we were going to display flags here on this site, I think it would be nice to display flags from countries all over the world showing the global nature of the people that make up this site.

    Interestingly, our common past experience seems to have united several people people from all over the world in an effort to free others from an injustice and prevent others from becoming victims to it, and i think that is nice.

    Path (sorry for the tangent peoples... lol)

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