Jesus' death

by Honesty 9 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    Chapter 6 page 28 paragraph 3 of the Revelation book claims that Jesus was indeed "the First" human to be resurrected to immortal spirit life. (Colossians 1:18) Moreover, he is "the Last" to be so resurrected by Jehovah personally.

    This is an outright false teaching from the Watchtower Society as the Biblical evidence proves:

    As the Jews were stoning Stephen he called out: “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit! (Acts 7:59)”

    Here we have a human asking Jesus to receive his spirit.

    On the other hand, if Jesus was just a human as the Watchtower Society contends why didn't He ask, "Jehovah, receive my spirit?"

    Rather, Jesus gave up His spirit. (John 19:30)

    No one took Jesus' life from Him; He, in a manner unlike any man, gave up His spirit. He stood in the place of sinners, but was never a sinner Himself. So He could not die unless He gave up His spirit.

    Jesus said, "I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again." (John 10:17-18)

    No human who has ever lived has had the power to lay down their lives and then to take it again by resurrecting themselves as Jesus did.

    He even foretold that He would raise himself up from the grave when He said, “Destroy this sanctuary, and I will raise it up in three days.” (John 2:19)

  • Double Edge
    Double Edge

    Thanks for all the "ammo" .... my JW friend and I have discussed Jesus' "body" (spiritual or physical) many times.... great points to bring out...

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    Chapter 6 page 28 paragraph 3 of the Revelation book claims that Jesus was indeed "the First" human to be resurrected to immortal spirit life. (Colossians 1:18) Moreover, he is "the Last"to be so resurrected by Jehovah personally.

    This is an outright false teaching from the Watchtower Society as the Biblical evidence proves:

    Honesty,

    While Col. 1:18 is not being applied properly in the Revelation book the conclusion given is still correct and the Biblical evidence that you provided does not prove otherwise.

    Your first evidence proves what?

    Honesty said: As the Jews were stoning Stephen he called out: "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit! (Acts 7:59)" Here we have a human asking Jesus to receive his spirit.

    And this proves that Stephen knew all future resurrections would be performed by Jesus Himself and not by Jehovah. After all when Jesus was about to raise Lazarus, Jesus taught: Joh 11:25 "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:" This then became a fundamental teaching of the faith and many Jews believed on Him as a result.

    Honesty said: On the other hand, if Jesus was just a human as the Watchtower Society contends why didn't He ask, "Jehovah, receive my spirit?"

    Actually He did but not in these exact words. Many people like yourself demand exact wording as if such wording would make some sort of difference or prove their point somehow? But Jesus already knew what Jehovah had promised Him and made it known by wording it like this: John 17: 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    After Jehovah glorified the Son at death, the Son would be responsible to give eternal life to others. But notice the kind of glory our Lord was praying for: "the glory which I had with thee before the world was." And what kind of glory was that? The glory He had before He became flesh when He was still identified by John as the Word and given the commission to create the human race.

    Honest said: Rather, Jesus gave up His spirit. (John 19:30)
    No one took Jesus' life from Him; He, in a manner unlike any man, gave up His spirit. He stood in the place of sinners, but was never a sinner Himself. So He could not die unless He gave up His spirit.

    You make it sound as if Jesus committed suicide and killed himself. This is simply saying that He died at the time of receiving the vinegar and gall. That He could die is proven by the fact that He did die. The thieves killed beside Him gave up their spirit a similar manner. This is simply a fact of life not some unlikely superpower at work. Perhaps it would make more sense to you if you read it as the Ghost and not His Ghost like this: 30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

    Honesty said: Jesus said, "I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again." (John 10:17-18)

    Now we are in another context and the reason for this statement was an aggressive crowd that was bent on killing Him for making himself out to be God. They were looking for a reason, any reason in fact to stone Him then and there. So He said this to them the ones standing before Him at the time. And the account concluded with this statement: 39 "Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand," Where is your proof Honesty?

    Honesty said: No human who has ever lived has had the power to lay down their lives and then to take it again by resurrecting themselves as Jesus did.
    He even foretold that He would raise himself up from the grave when He said, "Destroy this sanctuary, and I will raise it up in three days." (John 2:19)

    Jesus did not resurrect Himself to life, Jehovah did that for Him. This is well covered in the texts using the words God or Spirit for Jehovah. What Jesus did do was to raise the body of flesh, that temple or sanctuary that was executed and use it to walk the earth for 40 more days, teaching His disciples further about the Kingdom of God. What most do not realize is that this body was an immortal human body and could be used in this way with no scriptural conflict. It will continue to be used when our Lord returns once again in the flesh as promised to rule His Kingdom here on earth. Such use does not alter history or invalidate the sacrifice that was made during that memorial Passover week.

    Joseph

  • heathen
    heathen
    On the other hand, if Jesus was just a human as the Watchtower Society contends why didn't He ask, "Jehovah, receive my spirit?"

    Depends which gospel account you look at . One does have jesus saying , "father into your hands I entrust my spirit".

  • Pahpa
    Pahpa

    One has to take into consideration what Christians took for granted. All power and authority was given Christ by God. Christ is never equal to God.

    Paul describing the end events says of Christ: "Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he 'has put all his enemies under his feet.' The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he 'has put everything under his feet.' Now when it says 'everything' has been put under him, it is clear this does not include God himself who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everyting under him, so that God may be all in all." (1 Co. 15:24-28)

  • wozadummy
    wozadummy

    I agree with Joseph malik ,the only thing unique with Jesus's death was he died sinless whereas Stephen died a sinner ,yet he Chose to martyr himself at the hands of persecuters the same as jesus ,and in that way they had parallel deaths.

  • stark
    stark

    Jesus said that he would raise his body from the grave in John chapter 2...was he mistaken or did he really raise bodily from the dead?

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    Stark,

    Yes He did. In doing this He was fulfilling a commandment given to Him by His Father: Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. And for 40 more days He used that resurrected body to preach the Kingdom of God to His disciples. He left the earth with it and the promise made to us at that time was that He would return in the flesh in the same manner to establish this Kingdom here on earth which answered the question they put to him about when this Kingdom would come to be.

    Joseph

  • stark
    stark

    How do the J.W.s deal with John 2:19-22?

    How do they explain it away?

    I've never really talked about it with them because, the few times I'm able to talk with them it's usually about the Deity of Christ.

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    Stark,

    I put together an article called "Identifying the Antichrist." which covers their views on it pretty well. It was actually a refutation of Greg Stafford's chapter on this in his first book. You will find it on my web site. http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/

    Joseph

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