The "Creation of Eve" and the interval affecting 1975

by Terry 28 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Terry
    Terry

    The Watchtower, May 1, 1975, said of a Watchtower Bible School of Gilead graduation held on March 2, 1975: (Italics added)

    Another speaker, F. W. Franz, the Society's vice- president, forcefully impressed on the audience the urgency of the Christian preaching work. He stressed that, according to dependable Bible chronology, 6,000 years of human history will end this coming September according to the lunar calendar. This coincides with a time when "the human species [is] about to starve itself to death," as well as its being faced with poisoning by pollution and destruction by nuclear weapons. Franz added: "There's no basis for believing that mankind, faced with what it now faces, can exist for the seventh thousand-year period" under the present system of things.

    Does this mean that we know exactly when God will destroy this old system and establish a new one? Franz showed that we do not, for we do not know how short was the time interval between Adam's creation and the creation of Eve, at which point God's rest day of seven thousand years began. (Heb. 4:3,4) But, he pointed out, "we should not think that this year of 1975 is of no significance to us," for the Bible proves that Jehovah is "the greatest chronologist" and "we have the anchor date, 1914, marking the end of the Gentile Times." So, he continued, "we are filled with anticipation for the near future, for our generation."

    *** Studies in the Scriptures Vol. 2, 1906 ***

    Six Thousand years from the creation of Adam were complete in A.D. 1872, and hence that since A.D. 1872, we chronologically entered upon the seventh thousand or the Millenium.

    Wiggle room is needed in every absolute statement to allow the absolutist a way out of their ridiculous impropriety.

    In the early years of the Watchtower the absolute statements were constantly revised as they wore out. Fudging and outright dishonesty gave the wiggle room necessary to maintain the illusion that the predictor of events could not be wrong.

    Compare, for example, these two statements for content and observe the changes made.

    *** The Time Is at Hand, page ii, (forward) 1916 ***

    The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873.

    See any difference? Oh, just one year? No big deal, right?

    The 1986 book, Worldwide Security Under the “Prince of Peace” starting on p. 182, indicates that Satan’s final test upon mankind arrives at a time when “Seven thousand years previously, Satan the Devil was able to induce the perfect Adam and Eve to sin by taking a self-seeking course of action.”

    This was the last time the Watchtower Society even alluded to the creation day being 7000 years long. This teaching has never been denied outright, but; is not considered to be worth promoting anymore.

    Right after 1975 came and went without Armageddon the fallback (wiggle room) position was that there was an unknown interval between Adam's creation and that of Eve herself. This unknown time period would account for the seeming pause between 1975 and the beginning of the 7th day (set up by the Watchtower to correspond with the 1,000 year reign of Christ).

    This "creation of Eve" theory died abourning and hasn't been mention in a long, long time. It floats in a kind of doctrinal limbo along with the 7,000 year creation day.

    Older members who have long been faithful can hang on to these beliefs and feel not much has changed. New members aren't exposed to these teaching because they are too vulnerable to falsifiability.

    *** The Time Is at Hand, page ii, (forward) 1916 ***

    The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ’s Reign, began in 1873.

    The above is, of course, incompatible with subsequent events and must be largely ignored. The generation of Jehovah's Witnesses who believed these things has long died off and aren't here to complain.

    There is no mechanism of complaint in the first place! Nobody can stand up at then end of the Watchtower Study and proclaim:

    "I've been reading the Watchtower magazine as food at the proper time since I was a small child and I was wondering what happened to the 6,000 years of human existence doctrine and the interval between Adam's creation and that of Eve. Why don't we hear anything about it anymore? What gives??"

    It would be silly to think Adam has been walking around the Garden of Eden since 1975 (in a metaphoric parallel) and remains celibate for 31 years without a mate!

    Shouldn't this be a headline in a Watchtower somewhere with a big clock ticking? "ADAM STILL WAITS FOR WIFE!"

    Or has the wiggle gone out of the room?

    1889

    Volume II of Studies in the Scriptures, entitled The Time is at Hand announces, "that six thousand years from the creation of Adam were complete with A.D. 1872." (It also predicts) Battle of Armageddon, "will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership" (pp. 76-77, 99, 101). [see 1894, 1914, and 1968]

    Chapter 7 of Let God Be True (1946) says that each of the seven days of creation was 7,000 years long.

    2 editions of Let God Be True (1946; 1952) in the chapter The Sabbath: In Shadow and Reality.

    Man being created toward the close of the sixth day, he was put on earth toward the end of 42,000 years of earth's preparation. (p. 155)
    God's "seventh day" of rest continues 7000 years. (p. 165)

    Also the 1,000 year reign of Christ (the Millennium) corresponds to the last 1,000 years of the 7,000 years of God's rest. (pp. 167-169) So when did the 7,000 years of rest begin?

    On page 165 ( it is claimed that) the 7,000 year rest, "began applying over 4,000 years before Christ."

    (Ignoring the minor question of there being no year "0") it follows that 6,000 years will be completed by or before 6,000 - 4000 = 2000 AD.

    Page 166 says that the 1,000 year reign of Christ will start "immediately" after Armageddon. Therefore Armageddon will also have to be over by/before 2000 AD.

    Further, this dovetails into the collapse (the utter failure!) of the rock-solid doctrine of "this generation" being people old enough to witness the events of 1914 who would "never die" before Armageddon took place.

    Even if we presume that youngsters 15 years of age would be perceptive enough to realize the import of what happened in 1914, it would still make the youngest of "this generation" nearly 70 years old today.
    (Awake! 1968 October 8 p. 13-14)

    This doctrine and prophecy was taught as "the Creator's promise". From January 1982 Awake! magazine had the claim:

    Most importantly, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new order before the generation that saw the events of 1914 C.E. passes away.
    In 1995 this promise was revised to:
    Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things.
    (Awake! 1995 November 8)
    In discussing this revision The Watchtower said:
    Does our more precise viewpoint on "this generation" mean that Armageddon is further away than we had thought? Not at all! ( 1995 November 1 p. 20)

    Outrageous ducking and weaving followed by flip-flopping ending in outright bald-faced lying!

    Clearly the leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses do NOT understand their own beliefs and are confused about the "meaning" of scriptures. Yet, what do they claim about themselves???

    (JW leaders claim that their organization is), "the only organization on earth that understands the 'deep things of God'!" (The Watchtower 1973 July 1 p. 402)
    The Watchtower of 1931:
    The Watchtower recognizes the truth as belonging to Jehovah, and not to any creature. The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men. No man's opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. God feeds his own people, and surely God uses those who love and serve him according to his own will. (November 1 p. 327)
    The Watchtower (1943 July 1 p. 202) says: "Jehovah God is therefore the only Supreme Court of interpretation of His inspired word." The subsequent page adds:
    To such remnant of faithful servants of Jehovah God Christ Jesus has entrusted all "his goods", or earthly interests of the Kingdom. This does not signify that the faithful remnant or society of Jehovah's anointed witnesses are an earthly tribunal of interpretation, delegated to interpret the Scriptures and its prophecies. No; Christ Jesus the King has not entrusted that office to them. THE SUPREME COURT STILL INTERPRETS, thank God; and Christ Jesus, the Court's official mouthpiece of interpretation, reserves to himself that office as head of Jehovah's "faithful and wise servant" class. He merely uses the "servant" class to publish the interpretation after the Supreme Court by Christ Jesus reveals it. (p. 203)

    So, we may well have to scratch our head and ask who made the awful mistake of pinpointing the "This Generation" doctrine as applying to persons alive to witness events in 1914??

    Jehovah's prophetic word through Christ Jesus is: "This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur." (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired and unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment...
    (The Watchtower 1984 May 15 pp. 6-7)

    Ahhh, the Watchtower Society is not responsible because they lay the blame on Jehovah instead!!!!

    Isn't Wiggle Room wonderful???

    (Excellent resource pages: http://www.jwfiles.com/2000ad.htm )

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Older members who have long been faithful can hang on to these beliefs and feel not much has changed.
    New members aren't exposed to these teaching because they are too vulnerable to falsifiability.

    Yes. One of my threads addresses how my mother still believes that the end must be imminent
    because of the entire teaching that the creative day is 7000 years long, and that this last day must
    include the 1000 year reign of Christ.

    To better understand what is still supporting the older ones beliefs, they explain that Eve was
    created some time after Adam, and that some time passed before she and Adam sinned.

    That means that some years could have went by from Adam's creation to Eve's creation, perhaps
    not 31 years, but perhaps. Then add in the number of unknown years since her creation to her sin-
    The 6th creative day must have ended before her sin, so that God could proclaim- It was good.

    We know that Adam was 130 when Seth was born, and that the whole sin and being thrown out of
    Eden and the birth and raising of Cain and Abel happened before the birth of Seth. Assuming Cain
    was born nine months after Adam sinned, and assuming he was just a teenager when he murdered
    his brother- we arrive at about 110 to 115 years from Adam's creation to the maximum time period
    before the 6th creative day must have ended. (Do I sound like Fred Franz?)
    NOW- add that to 1975, and we arrive at 2090.

    You see why they don't need to abandon this yet, but you should also see why it's not taught anymore.
    Every JW who still believes the teaching which was never abandoned, but mostly forgotten, will be
    long dead before they would have to address it. Then, as with any WT magazines or books from the
    early days, they will not discuss the old light much.

    Does any older JW believe that this period could stretch out to 2090?- NO. But that doesn't mean
    much to anyone. The WTS always keeps rank and file on the edge about the end.

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    When its boughs are withered, they will be broken off; the women come and set them on fire. For it is a people of no understanding; therefore He who made them will not have mercy on them, and He who formed them will show them no favor.

    And it shall come to pass in that day that the LORD will thresh, from the channel of the River to the Brook of Egypt; and you will be gathered one by one, O you children of Israel. (Isaiah 27:11-12)

    love michelle

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Oh, you could also add another 10-12 years to that by saying
    that Seth was born before the murder happened. That doesn't
    contradict the Bible, it just doesn't add up as well. So stretch
    the date out to 2100, yes, I can see quite a stir coming about
    the end happening by 2100 (after a few other false dates came
    and went).

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    I think there was also a problem with the 7,000 year creative days in general: This used to be said to imply that all animal and plant life was less than 40,000 years old - clearly an absurdity.

    Nowadays, they hint that the creative days could have been "thousands" of years long, apparantly.

    But, without the signifigance of the 7000 year day, 1975 just doesn't mean squat. No matter if 607bce is right or not.

  • Terry
    Terry
    Nowadays, they hint that the creative days could have been "thousands" of years long, apparantly.

    This is worthy of another Topic header all by itself.

    I'm firmly convinced that the Watchtower Society is strongly influenced by the writings of Hugh Ross (Reasons to Believe) in his many books reconciling (he hopes!) science and fundamentalism by persuading ultra-conservatives to stop dissing scientific evidence which only makes them appear to be Luddites.

    By following the ?logic? of Hugh Ross, the Watcthtower Society can "explain" the contradictions between Science and the Bible and still be at odds (its favorite position) with Christendom's churches. A sweet spot to be in, if you ask me.

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    Eve was a person who had an eating disorder. The story of Adam and Eve is a history of nudist colony people with fruit eating disorders.

  • Terry
    Terry
    Eve was a person who had an eating disorder. The story of Adam and Eve is a history of nudist colony people with fruit eating disorders.

    Yes, well put. She is also the mother of all women with the "crazy pet" syndrome!

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    I can see quite a stir coming about
    the end happening by 2100

    among the 0.5 million JW's. scattered about.

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    Cain and Abel were competitors in the food production business. Abel apparently inherited the fruit eating disorder and opened a vegetable vending business. Cain was in research and development phase of introducing a new food source and saw Abel Industries as unfair competition.

    They were relatives of the founder of Noah Industries which later branched off into the wooden boat building business and was the first man recorded to have docked a large boat on the side of a mountain.

  • willyloman
    willyloman
    "we have the anchor date, 1914,

    Not any more, Freddy. Your "brothers" changed that on you back in '95, cutting the anchor and leaving your precious organization adrift.

  • Terry
    Terry

    But, without the signifigance of the 7000 year day, 1975 just doesn't mean squat. No matter if 607bce is right or not.

    Cults seem to shake off setbacks due to doctrinal misfires with alarming ease!

    The Mormon Church once had its own army and opposed the army of the United States of America! They printed counterfeit money and advocated multiple (plural) marriages even after publicly denouncing same!

    Yet, a few carefully chosen words here and there and....Presto! The stench is gone. Pfffft! Like magic.

    Mormons have successfully penetrated into mainstream America no matter who curls their lip at them.

    Jehovah's Witnesses have multiple embarassments in their 100% error rate in dispensing Truth at the proper time, yet; they march forward and today's Kingdom Halls shrug it all off as mere human error. No significance is attached by way of regarding it as False Prophecy.

    It is really the human need to shore up one's weakness by aligning oneself with a group larger than life and proclaiming absolute right.

    What galls me is not merely claiming correctness in the face of evidence to the contrary. No. It is the fact Jehovah's Witnesses actually believe they have a superior knowledge based on facts. They have no facts. They have false premises. They have presuppositions. They stack the deck and then deal as though a clean shuffle has preceded!

    They won't even consider contrary proof while cramming their own rigged propaganda down the throat's of the unwary under the guise of a Divine Purpose!

    The best challenge you can present to a JW at your door is the challenge to them to do what they are asking the householder to do. To wit: give honest consideration to proof that your religion may be a pack of lies!

    They are intellectually dishonest and ethical cowards parading about with human wisdom trumped up like a shiny badge of Divine Wisdom and humble martyrs to the true cause.

    Humbug!

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    Ha! Don't hold back, Terry - tell em how you really feel.

    I agree, it is stunningly hypocritical to just jettison all your past embarrasing prophecy, not explain a thing about it, and then act as if it was never really taught.

    Question - was there ever any redirection on the creation of Eve idea, either leaked by public talk, or actually printed? Or, do they deny the creation of Eve date significance just like they do 1975 in general?

  • Terry
    Terry

    Question - was there ever any redirection on the creation of Eve idea, either leaked by public talk, or actually printed? Or, do they deny the creation of Eve date significance just like they do 1975 in general?

    Yours is actually a fascinating question of process!

    What does a small child do when you ask them to admit they did something wrong? They don't want to be punished or held accountable because it is uncomfortable. So.....a child will do one of several things.

    1.Pretend nothing happened

    2.Pretend to not know what you are talking about

    3. Blame somebody else

    4. Lie

    This process is what the Watchtower society has always done when caught out in a lie.

    They will change information in subsequent articles in a subtle fashion to break the connection between the cause of an event and the effect of the cause. (Changing wording in articles or dates in predictions is one way.)

    They will point the finger at Christendom and try to make the larger crimes of others a mitigating factor in their own smaller foibles. They will blame the rank and file for "reading more into" their articles than was intending. They will self-mitigate by framing their error in terms of being enthusiastic and zealous for Jehovah's kingdom.

    They also lie outright. More insidiously, they have formed a wall of pressure to mount an offense against naysayers and critics that snuff out family empathy and personal friendships of support.

    The final red herring they toss out is that "who else has the pure worship Jehovah's people have"?

    This is an outrageous crock because it implies the fallacy of either/or dichotomy which says you MUST BE INVOLVED WITH A RELIGION rather than thinking for yourself.

    The Watchtower kills individuality and labels it as a disgusting human sin. They are in the cloning business. Individuality is snuffed.

    When I go back and read a disinformation article a very familiar feeling creeps over me that makes my spine tingle!

    I can feel the conditioning coming alive in each sentence the way it is (awkwardly) set up to pay off in the end.

    It is like having a python coil around you gently and apply pressure oh so subtly until the air goes out of you and your bones liquefy.

    Then, you are swallowed alive!

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    Excellent post, Terry!

    Randy

  • mcsemike
    mcsemike

    Excellent post, Terry, and many fine comments from everyone.

    I especially like the point about Adam's age when Seth was born. If I'm not mistaken, they've painted themselves into a corner because they connected a date with a timeline, in Adam. Now the clock is ticking and they can't stop it. I won't be here to see it play out, but someday even the 7,000 years will run out for them. Then what will they do?

    More lies, more cult manipulation, and more attacks on other religions and those JW's who have FINALLY had enough. (If that's possible.)

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    If I'm not mistaken, they've painted themselves into a corner because they connected a date with a timeline,
    in Adam. Now the clock is ticking and they can't stop it.

    They have painted themselves into corners before, and came out of them by walking on the
    paint. "This Generation" and 1975 were most recent. Their never truly dropping their
    explanation of 1975 causes only the older ones to believe the number of years tied to the
    7000 years to a creative day, with the upper limit being before less than 130 years are connected
    to Adam's time in Paradise. (Wordy) Only the faithful older ones who don't repeat it but still
    believe it's true. Not only they, but also all current JW's (except for some babies) will be dead
    before the absolute upper limits of that theory are reached. By then, nobody will have taught it,
    promoted it, believed it- end of that story. I do expect more blunders in this century, sooner than
    that, but they will be more careful than they were in 1975.

  • bert
    bert

    The expression "wiggle room" for me shows just how much they have been reduced to cartoon status in their attempt to be taken seriously. If it werent for all the hurt and damage they have inflicted on innocent people over the years it would actually be funny.I was d'fd in 74 and my older brother kept throwing this time difference of Eves creation in my face after 75 didnt happen. It kept me anxious at least until 85 and then I just decided to stop thinking about it.

  • truthsetsonefree
    truthsetsonefree

    Speaking to the question on whether this Eve doctrine has ever been retracted...I have never heard a retraction. I think it has gone the way of many fallacious Watchtower teachings. They are left unrepeated and they seem to fade. But I know people who still have stock in this belief. I also remember as a kid this talk being all the rage. Particularly in 1976 JWs had many questions. And this was the explanation given. I remember a Bethelite coming by our house as a kid and explaining this to me, drawing sketches and timelines on a paper napkin. I believed it of course, I was only ten years old.

    tsof

  • mcsemike
    mcsemike

    To Onthewayout: Excellent analysis. I wish we all lived for 200 years. I'd sure like to see this one play out. Maybe we'll be laughing from Heaven. Maybe without any JW's with us since they want the earth so much. Ironic.

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