Let's talk about SOUL

by Aintthatcute 5 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Aintthatcute
    Aintthatcute

    Something that I am having trouble grasping is my soul. OK, soul as it is defined by the WBTS.

    In the Reasoning from the Scriptures, pg 375, this is what is stated:

    [SOUL
    Definition: In the Bible, "soul" is translated from the Hebrew ne'phesh and the Greek psy-khe'. Bible usage shows the soul to be a person or an animal or the life that a person or an animal enjoys. To many persons, however, "soul" means the immaterial or spirit part of a human being that survives the death of the physical body. Others understand it to be the principle of life. But these latter views are not Bible teachings.]

    I'll keep this short. AT Genesis 2:7 it reads, "And Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust form the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man CAME TO BE A LIVING SOUL."

    Then, at Matthew 10:28 we read, "And do not become fearful of those who kill the BODY BUT CANNOT KILL THE SOUL; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy BOTH SOUL AND BODY in Ge-hen'na.

    According to the Reasnoning book, the body and soul are the same thing. However; the two scriptures taken from the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures tell me that the soul and body are seperate. Which is it?

    ATC

  • Introspection
    Introspection

    It seems like there's no agreement eh? Let me ask you one question: Are you asking about the biblical idea of soul, (assuming there is 100% unanimity among the different books of the bible) or just in general?

    I started writing something detailed but deleted it. Sorry if this is long, but let me first start by saying that I'm not responding personally or anything, you might see this message as me talking to myself and hashing things out because I think the topic is an interesting one.

    I think one thing worth noting is that we tend to think of soul as two ideas: individuality as well as life. I'm sure there will be others with detailed bible related answers so I'll leave that alone. I think it is useful to see the two factors as a whole, but there's an important distinction here. Now I know not everyone is just out to save themselves, but consider the word soul as used in the old saying "sell your soul to the devil." Since even the witnesses say you need to make the truth your own, the idea of conforming to certain ideas and belief because it means everlasting life is like selling your soul isn't it? Although someone may choose to change themselves, atleast a part of them sees their goal as worthy.

    Now if we look at the soul as that individuality, (the other part being the life force as in the breath of life) then the question is what is that individuality? What makes a decision yours, when you choose to believe something or not, and so on? We call that free will, but there's also no questioning that there are many influences on our beliefs and behaviors - if the witnesses did not recognize that they would not be so afraid of exposure to "apostates."

    Now if you find these ideas interesting, Aint, I'd be happy to discuss them further with you. If not, (but if anyone else is interested) I can just take it to another thread, I don't want to hijack yours. Because the next point is kind of a big deal, some people may not want to hear it.

  • MikeNightHaShev
    MikeNightHaShev

    “Soul in the OT [Old Testament] is nepe_s
    Nepe_s comes from an original root meaning to breathe, and thus since death is without breath then
    the soul (breath) ceases after death.
    “Dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19)

    Num. 6:6, 9:7, Lev. 21:11 – a dead body is a dead “nephesh”
    As scripture tells us, when you die the body goes back to the dust of the earth (Ecc 3:20) and the soul (breath) or spirit (nature of your being) also dissipates into the energy surrounding this, our layer of existence, the earth
    (Ecc 12:7, Psalms 22:29 & 104:29-30, Ezekiel 18:4 & 20, Joshua 10:28-39)
    Our Spirit (which is an essence of our being & not an energy) shouldn't be portrayed as an energy, for even if it was described as such it could not escape from this earth or have any senses or conciousness without a processor for it, which is what our brain is. We were formed from processions, layer after layer of micro realms to have concious energy, by placing the soul into the body, which acts as the processor, otherwise there would be no "Life" to experience.
    Example: You send a signal from computer to computer with a visual program that functions, but by itself that energy full of info has no form of concept, but once it’s received and processed at the end user, it then becomes a formed and visible program. Without the processor it’s just energy in micro orders without macro end vision of form.
    Still
    doubt what I say?
    Try blind folding yourself, placing sound proof ear phones on, and numbing your fingers. What do you feel, hear or see (thus sense)?
    Nothing!
    Does that energy you call soul still see, hear, touch, and feel?
    Without your vessel acting as the processor you have no sense that allow you to feel, hear, see and sense life.

    scripture warns us of "PROMISING" people a false "Soul Flying Life"(Ezekiel 13:20-22)

    In Judaism death was despised and seen as un natural.
    The only hope for a dying creation was a resurrection, a release from the death condition & remaining alive in this only grace of Life. Resurrection was to be a true reward for for those who gave their lives freely to G0D and towards society so
    they could 'return' ('HaShev') to see what their works achieved in creating the world to come. In other words it was seen as an ideal way to bring justice for those who have sacrificed their lives to better Life for the whole.
    The afterlife teachings are leading people away from the creators creation by coveting and worshiping and cherishing death rather then seeing the place to come on earth is merely a transformation not another realm.

  • Quester
    Quester

    Aintthatcute wrote:
    "According to the Reasnoning book, the body and soul are the same thing."

    Ah, back up to that Reasoning book quote:
    "Bible usage shows the soul to be a person or an animal or the life that a person or an animal enjoys."

    Soul = person, animal, life

    NOT body

    Quester

  • Introspection
    Introspection

    Hi Mike, thanks for that informative post.

    Resurrection was to be a true reward for for those who gave their lives freely to G0D and towards society so
    they could 'return' ('HaShev') to see what their works achieved in creating the world to come. In other words it was seen as an ideal way to bring justice for those who have sacrificed their lives to better Life for the whole.

    One thing about the resurrection confuses me, atleast as taught by the WTS though I don't know how different it can be.. I can understand someone giving their life freely to God, and I remember it is said that God has you in his memory.. But in what sense do "you" return then? If we take it as literally a sleep like state that's fine, but as JWs we're taught that you do not exist, period, so it's not literally like sleep where your body is still functioning at a slower metabolic rate. Would you say that our spirit, the essence, does not die? But if after you die you do not exist, as we were taught as JWs, is that individuality simply a matter of information stored in God's memory?

  • MikeNightHaShev
    MikeNightHaShev

    In some aspects ressurecting the dead means sleeping dead, as in removing the veil and waking people up to see what is Life and what they worshiped was death.
    The more literal aspect ia something attainable.
    In the potential of man to reach all he could and should be (fulfill the promises)it has always been a Judaic tradition & it's always taught that we can overcome Death, that it was not natural and could be overturned.
    This means since everything has a process and we merely do not grasp it until it's time that you should not assume the process of literal resurrection. However you should strive & progress to achieve such fulfillment of our promise and set your sites on such a future goal.

    Perhaps it's as easy as looking it up in the search engines:
    'Life extension' 'Resurrection of man' etc.

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