Cyrus predicted?

thebiggestlie

To those who don't take the bible as gospel truth, is there an explanation for the prophetic prediction of Cyrus as the one that would help bring down Babylon? This is one thing thats been on mind that i havn't really had the time to research and i'd love to here some of your opinions. Even thoughs that accept the bible i wouldnt mind hearing what you say as i am open to any idea.

sir82

I have not researched it extensively, but my understanding is that most serious scholars believe that the original writings of the book of Isaiah ended in chapter 39 (or is it 40?). The chapters (44 & 45) dealing with Cyrus are believed to have been written by some other anonymous author centuries after the events described. He tacked it on to what already existed in Isaiah to make the book look supernaturally prophetic.

And, if I recall correctly, they use textual analysis (spelling changes, grammatical changes, style changes, vocabulary changes, etc.) to determine that 2 (or more) writers separated by centuries of time completed the book.

RunningMan

Further to Sir82's comments, here is what I dug up:

This is what many outstanding scholars think today: There are three section in the Book of Isaiah:
1- Chapters 1-39 contain, with numerous additions, oracles of Isaiah of Jerusalem, in the eight century, called First (1) or Proto-Isaiah.
2- Chapters 40-55 record the words of a sixth century prophet living in exile in Babylon, called Deutero-Isaiah or Second (II) Isaiah.
3- Chapters 56-66 from the post-Exilic period are a continuation of the work of Deutero-Isaiah, probably by his disciples, and perhaps containing some of the Babylonian prophet's sayings. This section is called Trito-Isaiah or Third (III) Isaiah .

If this is indeed the case, then the Cyrus prediction in chapter 45 would have been living around the time the events happened, making the prophecy appear pretty average. Much like all the rest of the Bible prophesies (except the ones that were downright wrong).

I'd like to hear Nark or Leo weigh in on this.

Narkissos

Probably not centuries after, but what is generally called Second Isaiah or Deutero-Isaiah (= Isaiah 40--55) is generally dated to the Persian period and reflects some Persian influence (especially, its early monotheistic conception of Yhwh as author of both "good" and "evil," 45:7, is often thought to be both an influence from, and a reaction to, Persian dualism). Its treatment of Cyrus' conquest of Babylon as being Yhwh's work is parallel to the ascription of the same event to Marduk by the Babylonian clergy who welcomed Cyrus as a restorer of the old sanctuaries which had been neglected under Nabonides.

Edit: sorry for the repetitions.

A quote of the Babylonian "Cyrus decree" can be read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_in_the_Judeo-Christian_tradition

Justahuman24

RunningMan: Much like all the rest of the Bible prophesies (except the ones that were downright wrong).

What prophecies were "downright wrong"? Examples, please!

justahuman - but super nonetheless

Narkissos

What prophecies were "downright wrong"?

Ever heard of "this generation (not the 1914 one) shall not pass before all these things (including the final coming of the 'Son of Man') occur"?

RunningMan

I keep getting an error message when I try to post the text, so I will try posting a link to a chapter in my book. The chapter is called, "A Non-Prophet Organization". Section 1 lists some failed prophecies: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/94734/1.ashx

tmo1965

What prophecies were "downright wrong"?
Ever heard of "this generation (not the 1914 one) shall not pass before all these things (including the final coming of the 'Son of Man') occur"?

I believe that the above interpretation is incorrect. Jesus was answering 2 different questions when he made that statement. Read Matthew 24 real good from a Bible other than the NWT, preferably the NIV, NASB or some other modern translation. In Matt. 24:3, we see the 2 questions that were asked of Jesus: "When will these things happen (meaning the temple destroyed, see v. 2) and "What will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age"? Then Jesus proceeds by telling the disciples the signs of the end of the age and his 2nd coming. You know the drill on this, wars and rumors of wars, famine, etc. However the "this generation" part of his answer applies to both of the questions. The generation that Jesus lived in did not pass away before the 2nd temple was destroyed, thus fulfilling the prophecy of v. 2. Likewise the generation that sees all of the events (wars, famine, etc.) will not pass away before Jesus returns.

Narkissos

tmo1965,

This was discussed over the last couple of days here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/127074/1.ashx

Cyrus predicted?

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