Everything that deceives may be said to enchant.

by JimWood 3 Replies latest jw friends

  • JimWood
    JimWood

    This is from the Insight Book; I just need a sanity check on this line of reasoning.

    *** it-2 p. 244 Lie ***

    LIE

    The opposite of truth. Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth and doing so with the intent to deceive or to injure him or another person.

    So this means that the writing department can misrepresent, misquote, and lie about their references, because the R&F is not entitled to know where they get their (dis)information. They gave them selves a get out of jail card. And who exactly can decide "who is entitled?"

    *** it-2 p. 245 Lie ***

    While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it.(In other words it’s alright to lie by giving only half truth.) Jesus Christ counseled: “Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw your pearls before swine, that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip you open.” (Mt 7:6) That is why Jesus on certain occasions refrained from giving full information or direct answers to certain questions(Try this in a JC meeting)when doing so could have brought unnecessary harm. (Mt 15:1-6; 21:23-27; John 7:3-10)

    According to this, they claim that Jesus gives half truth for answers; yes the Big J is a liar. Yet in this next Awake! article Jesus did not lie but specifically diverted or said nothing to avoid having to lie. Same three scriptures, 180 degrees out of phase in their interpretation. What a difference two years make.

    *** g00 2/8 p. 21 Lying—Is It Ever Justified? ***

    “Cautious as Serpents”

    Of course, being truthful does not mean that we are obligated to divulge all information to anyone who asks it of us. “Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw your pearls before swine, that they may never . . . turn around and rip you open,” warned Jesus, at Matthew 7:6. For example, individuals with wicked intent may have no right to know certain things. Christians understand that they are living in a hostile world. Thus, Jesus advised his disciples to be “cautious as serpents” while remaining “innocent as doves.” (Matthew 10:16; John 15:19) Jesus did not always disclose the full truth, especially when revealing all the facts could have brought unnecessary harm to himself or his disciples. Still, even at such times, he did not lie. Instead, he chose either to say nothing or to divert the conversation in another direction.—Matthew 15:1-6; 21:23-27; John 7:3-10

    Every time I read their crap it never ceases to amaze me how twisted and inconsistent their logic (if I dare call it that) and teachings are. It’s defiantly easier to see it being on the outside looking in.

    Cheerio,

    Jim Wood

    False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil.

    Plato (427 BC - 347 BC),Dialogues, Phaedo

    Everything that deceives may be said to enchant.

    Plato (427 BC - 347 BC),The Republic

  • Fatfreek
    Fatfreek

    Very perceptive, JimWood. You've uncovered what may be one of the GB's next strategies, that is, to justify all the lying they've done in print over the last 100 or more years.

    It'll be a an extremely difficult spin for those spinmeisters because their very own premier document to dispense "truth", the Watchtower, says, "A religion that teaches lies cannot be true." December 1, 1991, p7.

    Nevertheless, I feel their record of lying is the single most powerful weapon to discourage anyone thinking of becoming a JW. It is also the greatest non-subjective way to prove to a JW that their religion is indeed based on falsehood .

    Fats

  • gaiagirl
    gaiagirl

    I recall hearing a talk in which an example was made of the two Hebrew spies who were hiding in Jericho in the home of Rahab. When men of the city came searching for the spies, Rahab lied and said they weren't there, allowing them an opportunity to later escape and return to the camp of Israel. According to the account, this led directly to the total destruction of Rahab's city, including all her neighbors, their children, etc. Rahab's lying to protect two Israelites (and by association, "Kingdom Interests") is promoted as a GOOD thing, and a fine example for modern witnesses to emulate. Whether a statement is a lie or not is independent of whether we deem someone "entitled" to know the truth. A lie is any statement which the speaker knows to be false. Period. Representatives of WTBTS have no problem with lying to promote the interests of their religion.

  • carla
    carla

    My jw brings up the Rahab incident all the time to diffuse the lying issue among jw's and the wt's teaching about lying.

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