God's Kingdom-Can Its Coming Be Pre-Announced?

by MDS 9 Replies latest watchtower bible

MDS

The Kingdom of God -- Is It Pre-Announced with Outstanding, Observable Events Going Before Its Coming?
Jesus said the following,
At Luke 17:20, 21 we read:
But on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of God is not coming with STRIKING OBSERVABLENESS, neither will people be saying, "See here!", or, "there!" for, Look! the kingdom of God is in your midst."
So we ask, would "Observableness" [Greek "parateresis", literally "attentive viewing"] be given toward the "Coming" of "God's Kingdom," by humans upon earth, BEFORE ITS ACTUAL "COMING"?
Also, would there be individuals, humans assembled on earth, who would be able to say, yes, PROCLAIM to the world by printed page, in advance of the coming of the Kingdom of God, "See Here!," or "See There!", actually pointing forward to the actual time of its ARRIVAL, that is the Kingdom of God? (The WTS has taught for many years that Jesus actually "arrived" in "Kingdom Glory", in the year of 1914.)
So we ask, would man be permitted by God, to actually, in truth, PRE-ANNOUNCE (In prophet-like fashion) THE KINGDOM OF GOD, and its imminent "Coming"?
According to Jesus, this was not possible, as indicated above.
However, the WTS and the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses feels differently. They feel otherwise.
Yes, they as an organization feel, that they have accurately done just this...as would a prophet-like organization does. They have foretold for some 40 years in advance just when the Kingdom of God, in heaven, would indeed "come," or be established in the heavens, in the hands of Jesus Christ. The year, the time, October, of the year of 1914.

However, individuals who study with Jehovah's Witnesses over the years, have questioned this. For example, this viewpoint, inadvertently raises questions about the logic and reasonableness of such a position, especially, using World War I [in 1914] as a "proof" (or as a part of a "composite sign") to identify when the "Kingdom of God," did come, as taught by the WTS?
Further, how can christians, harmonize Matt. 24th chapter where Jesus does mention, a "sign" to be given, a "sign" of war, earthquakes, pestilences, and other events, to surely occur and, with the explicit instructions and the contents of the following scriptural information found at Luke 17:20, 21, also provided by Jesus, clearly indicating that no "observable" thing would occur to indicate, just "when" the "Kingdom of God" actually Comes?
Many question this, who have studied the WTS literature. The WTS can provide no satisfactory answer.
Can you?
KEY SCRIPTURE: At Luke 17:20, 21 we read:
But on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness, neither will people be saying, "See here!", or, "there!" for, Look! the kingdom of God is in your midst."
The WTS and Jehovah's Witnesses, as an organization, do feel that they have been able to say: "See Here!, or "See There!" indicating to the world, IN ADVANCE, just when God's Kingdom, in the hands of Jesus Christ, would actually come in power, in 1914... they did this for over 40 years, by way of the Watchtower magazine, pointing forward to the year of 1914, before this supposedly occurred.
However a growing number of concerned Jehovah's Witnesses, also QUESTION THE DATE OF 1914, now too...the veracity of the date. The chronology used to fixate the date. They also question whether the Kingdom of God, actually came "into power," also, in the year of 1914, even using the "composite sign" of World War I and other events, as used and taught by the WTS?
So, we could ask ourselves, Have Jehovah's Witnesses really done as they have claimed, that is, given the world advance notice, of the Coming of the Kingdom of God, supposedly occurring in 1914?
Have they done this or not?
What would you say?
Further, what would you say Jesus was trying to convey to us, about the unique "coming" of "God's Kingdom" and its manner of approach toward us, as christian disciples today, and also, to the world at large?
What do you think?
MDS
Edited by - MDS on 4 November 2000 22:26:11
Frenchy

What do you think?

Leading question designed to illicit a reply from some poor unsuspecting sucker that will open the way for the questioner to give his answer which is in fact the whole object of this little farce. MDS is not asking for an opinion to which he will give due consideration but is merely seeking an opening to deliver his ‘report’ message. This is an old and familiar WTS tactic that is used effectively in the field service.
“Tell me, sir, what do you think God’s kingdom is?” --Smile while the householder expresses herself and politely wait until she is finished. Try to find some point on which you can agree and then turn to current publication being offered and read directly from the publication…. Don’t forget to mention the voluntary donation arrangement!
Sound familiar?
-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
MDS

Frenchy:
You mentioned on the "reflections" thread on the main forum, that you didn't want me to go away mad....but you didn't want me to "preach" to you, either.
Since you have "invited" me to speak on my behalf, then I will speak, but only on this "Bible Research Forum." You and your "friends," can have your "fun", philosophying, theorizing (since not a one of you, have even the fainted "clue" as to what's really going on and the Biblical relevance involved here), over on the main forum and I won't spoil your fun there.
But, I have decided to make a comment to you about your above statement, since such a statement is completely and clearly incorrect and completely misinformed.
Frenchy, ask yourself: Is it really wrong for someone to "preach" to "Israel," that's God's Name People, Jehovah's Witnesses? Is that so wrong? -- Romans 10th chapter.
Jehovah's Witnesses did it to every one of their "friends," neighbors, and associates, day in and day out, but, now, ... no one can "preach" to us?... is that right?
How, totally hypocritical!
This cannot be denied...As in the past, isn't it true, that "Israel," Jehovah's witnesses, are in need, in dire need of some serious "preaching," to itself, as we recall, given the present state of spiritual affairs handed JWs, under the WTS and GB directions for the past few years. Really, they are "sheep" that have been "skinned and thrown about...", as in Jesus'...the same as in his day. -- Matt. 9:36
But you don't want to hear any "preaching," at all, is that right, Frenchy?
That is also, the way it was, in Jesus' day too...at least by those official opposers of Jesus, the Pharisees, and religious leaders of his day.
As you recall, I'm sure, 2 Tim. 4:2 shows the "Word of God," would and should be "preached," in "favorable and troublesome season." And nothing will stop this, because this is God's doing.
Unbeknowst to you, and many others, still, this "preaching" message, the "Report," will be done, carried out, for a 7 year period to "Israel," a special "invitation" given to Israel,
BEFORE
Jehovah appropriately DECIDES to give The "Message," The "Report," the "Good News" to the Gentiles, the "nations," appreciative individuals who are clearly more worthy recipients and more responsive, than proud, stubborn, presumptuous "Israel" of our time, Jehovah's Witnesses of our day. These "Gentiles," will number some 200 million strong, in fulfillment of Matt. 24:14, and Mark 13;10.
Now for the next comment you made about me.
Leading question designed to illicit a reply from some poor unsuspecting sucker that will open the way for the questioner to give his answer which is in fact the whole object of this little farce. MDS is not asking for an opinion to which he will give due consideration but is merely seeking an opening to deliver his ‘report’ message. This is an old and familiar WTS tactic that is used effectively in the field service.
My friend, you IMPUTE bad motive to me. Do you have such "proof"?
Well, still anyway, so far no one has "replied" to the question... I wonder why?
Could it be, they are completely "ignorant," just as yourself, on just how to understand such a delicate, yet precious spiritual "truth"?
For your information, I asked the same question on 4 different boards, "Jerusalem 2," "Eden2Outpost," H2O, and here...and no one could provide the answer.
How about "answering" the question yourself...then, since it is sooo simple to you?
And about the message I speak of, "The Report," the message is free...I speak of it freely to you and others on this board. The "message" is free.
You say I'm trying to sell a book. Yes, we do have a book...written by us. But no where, do you see me speaking about or myself, directing, selling, or trying to make anyone buy a book...soliciting money and so on. No, I do not need to "sell" anything...personally speaking. Whether you decide to "purchase" any thing is your personal choice...be it book, magazine, and so on. No one trying to "twist your arm", in any way. If you don't want the book, then guess what, don't buy it.
But, you seem quite eager, to make sure that no one else "listens," and make up their own minds.
But my advise is for you to "buy," something...
"eyesalve, that you may rub in your eyes, so that you can see again." -- Revelation 3:18
That's what you should "buy."
It is you, who and your companions on this board, who are in "need" of buying something, anything, to help unravel, untangle this "mess" you are in, courtesy of the WTS/GB. Now, Jehovah must provide an "answer" -- to put things "straight," as they should be. -- 2 Tim. 3:16
But, do we have the faith...that's the question.
So, at present, You are the one, perplexed with "questions," "wonderings," and the sort.
God will provide...but will you "listen," or continue to look for every opportunity to, deride, chide, and RIDICULE...I wonder.
MDS
AhHah

MDS,
I am just curious.
Assume, for arguments sake, that all who read your posts here were convinced that you are a prophet and that you are revealing new understandings of Bible prophecy for our time.
Other than believing, what exactly is it that you would have them do about it? What is the next step? (please phrase your answer in one sentence of your own words, if you can)
Pathofthorns

First We Take Manhattan
Leonard Coehen (altered version by Path)
They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
For trying to change the system from within
I'm coming now I'm coming to reward them
First we take Manhattan, then we take Brooklyn
I'm guided by a signal in the heavens
I'm guided by this birthmark on my skin
I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons
First we take Manhattan, then we take Brooklyn
I'd really like to live beside you, baby
I love your body and your spirit and your clothes
But you see that line there moving through the station
I told you I told you I told you I was one of those
You loved me as a loser but now your worried that I just might win
You know the way to stop me but you don't have the discipline
How many nights I prayed for this: to let my work begin
First we take Manhattan, then we take Brooklyn
I don't like your fashion business, mister
I don't like these drugs that keep you thin
I don't like what happened to your sister
First we take Manhattan, then we take Brooklyn (chorus)
And I thank you for those items that you sent me
The monkey and the plywood violin
I practiced every night and now I'm ready
First we take Manhattan, then we take Brooklyn
Remember me, I used to live for music
Remember me, I brought your groceries in
It's Father's Day and everybody's wounded
First we take Manhattan, then we take Brooklyn

Edited by - Pathofthorns on 17 November 2000 20:23:17
MDS

Ah Hah:
...Other than believing,
what exactly is it that you would have them do about it?...
"Other than Believing", "other than Believing," ... other than...
hmmm....
My friend, BELIEVING, putting complete Faith, in the "message," the "report," the "good news," is EVERYTHING... Yes, "Believing" or "expressing Faith," is everything. There is no "other than," because true "faith," also is accompanied with "works," too. So the man of God, is then, complete, as "love", hope and Faith, together conquers all...including Satan himself and this world. -- 1 Corinthians 13:13
It is just as Isaiah 53:1 says:
"Who has put faith in the THING HEARD
[literally the "Report" see fnt large print NWT Ref Bible] by us?..." -- See Also John 12:38, Romans 10:16
Please note, "Ah Hah," yes... To NOT "BELIEVE", or to, "DISBELEIVE", to lack FAITH, in God's Message is considered by Jehovah God, an OUT RIGHT ACT OF DISOBEDIENCE TO HIM...
"disobedience," ...like Adam and Eve...Satan.
Or, did you not know this?
Listen carefully...
"Nevertheless, they did not all OBEY THE GOOD NEWS. For Isaiah says: Jehovah, who put faith in the "thing heard" [literally "Report"] from us?...But as respects Israel he says: "All day long I have spread out my hands toward a people that is DISOBEDIENT and TALKS BACK." -- See Romans 10:16; 21
Sound familiar...?
It is an easy thing to do... that is to doubt the "message" from Jehovah God, like Priest Zechariah did, when he was told, in his old age, he and his wife would produce a son, the one who became known as "John, the baptizer." For doubting, he was rendered "mute" until after the child was born..."because" as the angel said, "you did not BELIEVE MY WORDS, which will be fulfilled in their appointed time." -- Luke 1:20
Ah Hah,
ITS A SIN to disbelieve, to lack faith, to NOT believe the "message", the "Report", the "thing heard," the Word of God...God's Message, the "Good News."
"...
...What is the next step? (please phrase your answer in one sentence of your own words, if you can)
Okay...WTS/GB receives the "mark of the beast" in total compromise when the "Great War" of Daniel 10:1 DOES NOT LEAD TO ARMAGEDDON as predicted in publications, much to their chagrin, shock and horror, leaving those who are now witnesses of their unique "fall" from status as "prophets," now are suddenly, and surprisingly, unwilling to receive the "mark", therefore, INSTEAD OF TOTAL DESTRUCTION LIKE THE WTS, must now receive as Discipline from God, 42 months of trampling upon themselves (by political nations, "beast"), as decimated nation, the Jehovah's Witnesses, worldwide, a DISOBEDIENT PEOPLE clearly revealed for all to see, with only the "humble" among them expected to SURVIVE THE UNPRECENDENTED ORDEAL, just as the "Report" has been speaking of for years and years, and yes, just as, Zephaniah 3:11, 12 says:
"...In that day you [Israel] will not be ashamed because of all your dealings with which you transgressed against me, for then I shall remove from the midst of you your haughtily exultant ones; and YOU WILL NEVER AGAIN BE HAUGHTY IN MY HOLY MOUNTAIN...and I shall certainly let remain in the midst of you a people HUMBLE AND LOWLY, and they will actually take refuge in the name of Jehovah." -- Zephaniah 3:11, 12[/b]
One sentence...
MDS
Edited by - MDS on 18 November 2000 16:40:5
AhHah

Alrighty, then. Well that one sentence certainly clears it all up for me! I have no more questions. Anyone else have any questions? No? Well, then, motion to adjourn. Do I hear a second motion?
MDS

I "second the motion." Meeting adjourned.
MDS
logical

MDS:
Jehovah appropriately DECIDES to give The "Message," The "Report," the "Good News" to the Gentiles, the "nations," appreciative individuals who are clearly more worthy recipients and more responsive, than proud, stubborn, presumptuous "Israel" of our time, Jehovah's Witnesses of our day. These "Gentiles," will number some 200 million strong , in fulfillment of Matt. 24:14, and Mark 13;10 .
Just wanted to know where you got the 200 Million figure from.
Logical
MDS

Hi "Logical":
The figure of 200 million comes from Revelation 9:16.
Take Care,
MDS

God's Kingdom-Can Its Coming Be Pre-Announced?

Share this