Look At the Fruits!! Says the Watchtower

by stevieb1 8 Replies latest jw friends

  • stevieb1
    stevieb1

    We know how much in the way of doctrine is Scripturally deficient in the WatchTower organization, but they will always come back and say something on the following lines:

    * Look at the fruit of our works. Millions are coming to an accurate knowledge about Jehovah who would never get to know Him where it not for our preaching activities carried out worldwide. Which other organization does this on such a large scale? Yes some doctrines may be inaccurate, and we "wait on Jehovah" to clarify these matters, but just look at the fruitage - surely this indicates Jehovah's blessing on his organization.

    * We are the only people who truly love one another no matter where we are from. Other religionists kill one another, but we would never do that. Surely this indicates that we have the truth.

    * We are the only ones that stress the importance of God's Name

    * Who else is preaching the good news of God's Kingdom - only Jehovah's Witnesses.

    When I have voiced disagreements on matters such as the 144,000/great crowd or the 607BCE issue, JW's generally discard these things as minor matters in comparison to some of the above. Sometimes they seem so convinced that I almost find myself believing they do have the truth and they do have God's blessing. Some of the above are quite hard to refute. Has anyone else had a similar issue with the above? How have you responded when an elder or another Witness brings these things up?

  • Seeker
    Seeker
    * Look at the fruit of our works. Millions are coming to an accurate knowledge about Jehovah who would never get to know Him where it not for our preaching activities carried out worldwide. Which other organization does this on such a large scale? Yes some doctrines may be inaccurate, and we "wait on Jehovah" to clarify these matters, but just look at the fruitage - surely this indicates Jehovah's blessing on his organization.

    Catholics are also waiting on God to clarify matters in their own church, but JWs totally reject that argument, saying they have to flee an organization that doesn't teach truth, or even tells lies. Since the WTS has been teaching non-Biblcal things for well over a century (flip-flopping on alternative military service, adding rules to the Bible about which blood fractions are acceptable and which are not), and we have proof that the WTS has told lies, how can this be God's organization.

    As for preaching, all Christians preach, they just don't use the exact method JWs use, door-to-door (and no, the scriptures do NOT insist on that method). Given how incredibly inefficient the door-to-door method is (have you seen how many hours, on average, you have to preach for each baptism?), and given how explosive the growth has been for evangelical Christians in the last one hundred years, it is not true to say only JWs preach.

    * We are the only people who truly love one another no matter where we are from. Other religionists kill one another, but we would never do that. Surely this indicates that we have the truth.

    JWs do kill one another, symbolically, when they DF one of their own (which is symbolic of being cut off in death). And JWs only love conditionally, only if you conform to the rules. If you drift away, the love lessens. If you leave, the love ceases entirely, despite Jesus' words about the little lost sheep.

    * We are the only ones that stress the importance of God's Name

    Not true, actually. Other religions do this as well.

    * Who else is preaching the good news of God's Kingdom - only Jehovah's Witnesses.

    Not true, actually. Other religions do this as well. And, of course, what are JWs actually preaching. No one has any idea, other than that they sell magazines. No one has a clue that their message has anything to do with the kingdom. And what message are they teaching? That the kingdom began ruling in 1914? Sorry, that's not true, so they aren't even teaching something that's correct.

  • bjc2012
    bjc2012

    Stevieb1,

    Here is my take on their defense mechanism.

    Look at the fruit of our works. Millions are coming to an accurate knowledge about Jehovah who would never get to know Him where it not for our preaching activities carried out worldwide. Which other organization does this on such a large scale? Yes some doctrines may be inaccurate, and we "wait on Jehovah" to clarify these matters, but just look at the fruitage - surely this indicates Jehovah's blessing on his organization.

    Millions have become Jehovah’s Witnesses, but they don’t have accurate knowledge about Jehovah. In fact, the statement ‘some doctrines may be inaccurate’ proves that they don’t. If they have to ‘wait on Jehovah’ to clarify matters, then why are they making statements that they cannot prove to be true? Accurate knowledge means just that, all that you teach is true, not just some of it. The scriptures are full of statements that indicate that God’s named people do not know him. This is mentioned at least thirty times in the book of Ezekiel alone. For instance, Ezekiel 39:7 reads: “And my holy name I shall make known in the midst of my people Israel, and I shall no more let my holy name be profaned; and the nations will have to know that I am Jehovah, the Holy One in Israel.” Why does Jehovah have to ‘make known his name’ in the midst of a people who are supposed to know him already? (See also John 17:6, 26)

    We are the only people who truly love one another no matter where we are from. Other religionists kill one another, but we would never do that. Surely this indicates that we have the truth.

    It is true that they don’t war against each other, at least not yet. Yet Matthew 24:10-12 states: “Then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and mislead many, and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love (agape) of the greater number will cool off.” According to this scripture they will war with each other. (See also Isaiah 19:2 and Zechariah 11:14) What they have now will not last.

    We are the only ones that stress the importance of God's Name

    True, they are the only international group that does this. Yet their actions do belie their claims. They are not afraid to lie in that name, nor do they refrain from profaning it by mistreating anyone who questions their doctrine even if done innocently, and using shepherds who act as Ezekiel 34: 3-5 reports: “….The flock itself you do not feed. The sickened ones you have not strengthened, and the ailing one you have not healed, and the broken one you have not bandaged, and the dispersed one you have not brought back, and the lost one you have not sought to find, but with harshness you have had them in subjection, even with tyranny. And they were gradually scattered because of there being no shepherd, so that they became food for every wild beast of the field and they continued to be scattered.” That is why verse 10 says: “This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘Here I am against the shepherds, and I shall certainly ask back my sheep from their hand and make them cease from feeding my sheep…”

    Who else is preaching the good news of God's Kingdom - only Jehovah's Witnesses.

    If it is the Kingdom that they claim was established in 1914, then you already know how to answer that. Ask them to prove that the prophecy concerning the heaven-high tree that was cut down and banded for seven times spoken of in Daniel chapter 4 was uttered before 607. And if so, then when was the typical fulfillment on Nebuchadnezzar accomplished?

    When I have voiced disagreements on matters such as the 144,000/great crowd or the 607BCE issue, JW's generally discard these things as minor matters in comparison to some of the above.

    Since when is lying or perpetrating falsehoods a minor matter to Jehovah?
    Proverbs12:22 reads: “False lips are something detestable to Jehovah…”
    Proverbs 19:5 reads: “A false witness will not be free from punishment, and he that launches forth lies will not escape.”

    bjc

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    stevie

    What constitutes accurate knowledge of jehovah is purely a matter of opinion. The wt has flip flopped on his standards for years. Whether or not the sodomites and gomorites would be resurrected has ben flipped about 10 times.

    Another thing they are not clear on is, is god using the old or new covenant. Much of wt writings are based on the old covenant. Little attention is given to understanding jesus' new covenant. In fact, according to the wt there is no covenant between god and the great crowd. The great crowds contract is with the 'anointed' or more acurately, the wt society, not god.

    Not very accurate, if you ask me.

    A worldwide brotherhood that they have obtains also in some other cults.

    Just how important is gods name anyway, since it soesn't appear even one time in the new testament? The obscure halleluljah in revelation doesn't count. Count how many times the name jesus occurs. That name seems to be important. The wt arbitrarily overruled all their greek manuscripts and inserted jehovah in the nt about 235 times. That is why it appears in the nw trans.

    S

  • dungbeetle
    dungbeetle

    Jehoavah's Witnesses do SO kill their own..THEIR OWN CHILDREN!! In the absence of scriptural support...and in violation of the scriptural admonition found at Jeremiah 7:31; Matthew 9:13 and 25:40; and Phillipians 4:8.

    Jehoavah's Witnesses do SO kill their own...by ordering their followers to not pay , for instance, 25 cent tax without scriptural support and in violation of Ephesians 4:8; Romans 13:7; Mark 12:17.

    Jehovah's Witnesses do SO kill their own...by ordering their followers to not do alternative service without scriptural support and in violation of Ephesians 4:8 and mark 12:17 and Romans 13:7.

    And finally, jehovah's Witnesses do so kill thier own people by ordering their followers to continue to 'go after' a group who is obviously a false prophet in every sense found in Deuteronomy 18:18-22.

    And many do so to their own misery, poverty and death.

    dungbeetle...cleaning up the crap.

  • MDS
    MDS

    Hi Stevie:

    ...We are the only ones that stress the importance of God's Name.

    Jehovah's Witnesses do carry the most sacred Name in the Universe upon themselves. And that for some 70 years, as of this October 2,001. That is quite true.

    The act of carrying God's Name upon oneself can become a wonderful "blessing" or like having a dreadful "bullseye [painted] upon ones back" -- depending upon how the spiritual nation conducts itself while carrying that Name. The Biblical account & recorded history of the ancient nation of "Israel" proves that. -- See Numbers 6:27; 2 Chron. 7:14; Daniel 9:19.

    Thus, as one of their Kingdom Songs is entitled: "Are They Living Up To The Name," that is the big question.

    If not, if they are profaning it in any way...conduct or doctrine or both...they must answer...with no exceptions. -- Exodus 20:7; Romans 2:24; 1 Timothy 6:1

    Check out the following URL for further details.

    > http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=11937&site=3#144689

    MDS

  • metatron
    metatron

    Let's consider the name Jehovah - the Society's great claim to fame.

    Fact: Jesus specifically avoided using Jehovah/Yahweh!

    "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name" - not "Yahweh
    who art in heaven"

    It seems that in all the accounts of Jesus' death he also avoided
    using the name. - "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani" - a quote that
    uses "my God" not the name. "Father, forgive them , they know
    not what they do" - again avoiding the name.

    Accounts that say Jesus made his Fathers' name known do not
    necessarily have anything to do with the name Yahweh/Jehovah.
    They metaphorically refer to God's reputation or power made
    manifest. Don't believe me? Read the Insight book ("Jehovah")
    and see how "knowing" God's name is often NOT LITERAL.

    Jesus was setting up a universal faith not pushing everyone
    towards tribal religion - that's why he kept saying "Father"
    and avoiding the name. In addition, there is NO real manuscript
    evidence that Christian Bible writers ever used the name in any
    Bible book. The Society's forcing of the name into Greek text
    is without direct evidence.

    metatron

  • MacHislopp
    MacHislopp

    Hello Stevieb 1

    thanks for the post.

    More than 40 years ago the WTS wrote:" The great number of
    followers is not a solid base, ...on which to edifies one's..
    faith.."

    " Today religious organisations...indicate the great number
    of followers and their riches as a prove of been blessed
    by God" !!!!

    also: " The number of religious followers is great, but it
    is not enough to have a great number of followers. Justice,
    goodness, love, faith and integrity: these are the things
    which really count." !!!

    So you know now...tell them in case they have a short memory.

    Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp

    " One who has an accurate knowledge
    of God's Word will have no problem
    in refuting false religious ideas".

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    To us apostates

    Fruit! Fruit!

    Fresh fruit not good enough for ya, eh? Getting all high and mighty!

    -Monty Python-

    S

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit