"Trampled upon by the Juggernaut of Christian Dogma and Guilt."

by scout575 7 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • scout575
    scout575

    "Many of them believe that we weren't "genuine" converts, that our profession was somehow narrow and insincere, that we weren't "really saved" and thats why our faith did not persist. But if my conversion was insincere, then I can't fathom what sincere conversion is.

    See if this sounds familiar: I was converted when I came to believe I was a sinner separated from God, who could not pay the debt of my own sin, and that Christ had come to die in my place on the cross, to restore me to God. When the realization of this hit me, it was like I'd been hit in the head by a bolt of lightning. I believed it and accepted it with all my heart, and I asked Jesus that very moment, with every ounce of sincerity in my body, to come into my heart and save me and cleanse me and purify me and sanctify me and keep me from temptation.

    At that moment I had the same conversion experience that so many other Christians have had, and that so many cling to so desperately in the final death throes of their faith. It was a genuine transcendant experience. I felt I was in the very loving embrace of God, like a newborn baby in its mother's arms, completely safe, completely secure, not a doubt, not a worry, not a single fear. I wept at the beauty of it all. How much more sincere can one be? Must one weep tears of blood?

    And yet, now in the face of the irrationality of this belief system, not even an experience as powerful as this can convince me of its truth. Because, you see, it wasn't long before that pure, loving, wonderful experience was trampled upon by the juggernaut of Christian dogma and guilt."

    The above is part of the first deconversion story to be found on a website entitled, 'Losingmyreligion.com', in the section, 'Letters from ex-Christians'. If you're an exiting JW thinking about joining a different church, please become familiar with this site. Another very therapeutic site for disllusioned Christians is entitled, 'The Joy Of Disillusionment'. Good luck.

  • Shining One
    Shining One

    "See if this sounds familiar: I was converted when I came to believe I was a sinner separated from God, who could not pay the debt of my own sin, and that Christ had come to die in my place on the cross, to restore me to God. When the realization of this hit me, it was like I'd been hit in the head by a bolt of lightning. I believed it and accepted it with all my heart, and I asked Jesus that very moment, with every ounce of sincerity in my body, to come into my heart and save me and cleanse me and purify me and sanctify me and keep me from temptation.
    At that moment I had the same conversion experience that so many other Christians have had, and that so many cling to so desperately in the final death throes of their faith. It was a genuine transcendant experience. I felt I was in the very loving embrace of God, like a newborn baby in its mother's arms, completely safe, completely secure, not a doubt, not a worry, not a single fear. I wept at the beauty of it all. How much more sincere can one be? Must one weep tears of blood?
    And yet, now in the face of the irrationality of this belief system, not even an experience as powerful as this can convince me of its truth. Because, you see, it wasn't long before that pure, loving, wonderful experience was trampled upon by the juggernaut of Christian dogma and guilt."

    If this is a true statement and not a troll...let's analyze what he/she is saying. The key is in the third paragraph: "now in the face of the irrationality of the belief system". 1) A conversion can no more be explained than any mystical experience. 2) There is not enough physical evidence to suit this person so they have adopted a materialistic or naturalistic view. 3) They want to 'cross all the t's' and 'dot all of the I's' and explain the mysteries of Christianity. 4) It's also my guess that they have become entangled in a legalistic church of some type. All of the above are traits that we acquire through the Watchtower's conditioning.
    When they say 'dogma' that means they do not believe the Bible in the first place. When they say 'guilt' that tells me that they struggle with some sin in their lives that has frustrated them. That's too bad. If they did have a genuine conversion then they will be back in some sort of Chrsitian church. Security is eternal and we are not held by our own hand but God's. When we acquire faith, even that comes from God. We have no special characteristics nor are Christians better than anyone else. We all struggle and in many ways the Christian life is tough to live right, but a true blessing when we see the power of the Christ conquering what we could not.
    There are a lot of weird churches out there, there are a lot of false teachers. Most of what we would call Christianity is not that at all. In churches there are an average of 60-70% unconverted. Many have gotten what I call, "fire insurance", which is not a valid conversion at all. A Christian is measured by the fruits that they display as are the unconverted.
    Rex

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Rex

    A Christian is measured by the fruits that they display as are the unconverted.

    Does that mean that a christian without the fruits would be lost? Does it mean that the unconverted that do have the fruits are saved?

    S

  • Perry
    Perry
    a true blessing when we see the power of the Christ conquering what we could not

    In a nut shell, that is the entire point of God's dealing with humans. That you for putting it so succiently.

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    Shining One:

    1) A conversion can no more be explained than any mystical experience.

    Agreed. "Mystical" experiences can never be explained rationally.

    2) There is not enough physical evidence to suit this person so they have adopted a materialistic or naturalistic view.

    And quite rightly. Without physical evidence - the only real kind of evidence - there is no reason to believe.

    3) They want to 'cross all the t's' and 'dot all of the I's' and explain the mysteries of Christianity.

    Indeed. They want to make sure they're not being taken in by some vague mystical nonsense.

    4) It's also my guess that they have become entangled in a legalistic church of some type. All of the above are traits that we acquire through the Watchtower's conditioning.

    It seems they haven't become entangled, precisely because of their requirement for reason.

    When they say 'dogma' that means they do not believe the Bible in the first place.

    Nobody should believe anything "in the first place". Beliefs should be based on evidence.

    When they say 'guilt' that tells me that they struggle with some sin in their lives that has frustrated them.

    Really? It tells me they were involved with a belief system that made them feel guilty.

    That's too bad. If they did have a genuine conversion then they will be back in some sort of Chrsitian church. Security is eternal and we are not held by our own hand but God's. When we acquire faith, even that comes from God.

    How can you tell that that is the case.?

    We have no special characteristics nor are Christians better than anyone else.

    Agreed!

    We all struggle and in many ways the Christian life is tough to live right, but a true blessing when we see the power of the Christ conquering what we could not.

    These blessings you see, can others see them too? Do you have - dare I ask - evidence?

    There are a lot of weird churches out there, there are a lot of false teachers. Most of what we would call Christianity is not that at all. In churches there are an average of 60-70% unconverted. Many have gotten what I call, "fire insurance", which is not a valid conversion at all. A Christian is measured by the fruits that they display as are the unconverted.

    The fruits they display that can be measured. That sounds like potential evidence to me. If there's measurable fruitage then you won't need mysticism to convince me, just show me the fruits you have measured.

  • Shining One
    Shining One

    Hi Derek,
    >And quite rightly. Without physical evidence - the only real kind of evidence - there is no reason to believe.
    You readily accept the same in your own world-view. Many of the tenets of natualism are not observable, falsifiable nor predictable. What is the process that causes the brain to decipher sight, sound, touch, etc and even worse, how is it that we are able to think? Yet this occurs and we see the proof right here!
    >3) They want to 'cross all the t's' and 'dot all of the I's' and explain the mysteries of Christianity.
    Indeed. They want to make sure they're not being taken in by some vague mystical nonsense.
    See the above....
    4) It's also my guess that they have become entangled in a legalistic church of some type. All of the above are traits that we acquire through the Watchtower's conditioning. It seems they haven't become entangled, precisely because of their requirement for reason.
    >When they say 'dogma' that means they do not believe the Bible in the first place.
    You have your opinion and I mine....
    >Nobody should believe anything "in the first place". Beliefs should be based on evidence.
    That was not the implication and you full well know it.
    >When they say 'guilt' that tells me that they struggle with some sin in their lives that has frustrated them.
    >Really? It tells me they were involved with a belief system that made them feel guilty.
    What belief system that is benefical for mankind doesn't? Where do moral come from in the first place?
    That's too bad. If they did have a genuine conversion then they will be back in some sort of Chrsitian church. Security is eternal and we are not held by our own hand but God's. When we acquire faith, even that comes from God.
    >How can you tell that that is the case.?
    By the context of scripture in it's entirety.
    >We have no special characteristics nor are Christians better than anyone else.
    Agreed!
    We all struggle and in many ways the Christian life is tough to live right, but a true blessing when we see the power of the Christ conquering what we could not.
    >These blessings you see, can others see them too? Do you have - dare I ask - evidence?
    Sure I do: the changes that occur in individuals; answered prayer; spiritual maturity that is gained by the personal relationship with the One who created us and died for our sins, giving us a solid hope that is a promise; of heavenly life for our immortal souls.
    There are a lot of weird churches out there, there are a lot of false teachers. Most of what we would call Christianity is not that at all. In churches there are an average of 60-70% unconverted. Many have gotten what I call, "fire insurance", which is not a valid conversion at all. A Christian is measured by the fruits that they display as are the unconverted.
    >The fruits they display that can be measured. That sounds like potential evidence to me. If there's measurable fruitage then you won't need mysticism to convince me, just show me the fruits you have measured.
    Then go ahead and test my assertions. Get involved with a Bible-believing church and see the fruits for yourself. I do not recommend a church that teaches against the nature of God, i'e' modalism or oneness. Nor do I recommend a pentacostal, because it is so 'experiental and emotional'. Those who are used to what we came from do not handle the charismatic groups very well. A lot of it is carnal and possibly cultic so be careful. I wish you well in your spiritual journey. Surely you don't find the answers that you need in life through materialism!
    Do not seek to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. St. Augustine
    Rex

  • Shining One
    Shining One

    A Christian is measured by the fruits that they display as are the unconverted.
    >Does that mean that a christian without the fruits would be lost? Does it mean that the unconverted that do have the fruits are saved?
    James and Paul both teach that faith without works is dead. John teaches in his epistles that the very evidence of our faith is that fruit. Check out Eph. 2:8-10 and read James and John 1 & 2. They are not very long so it will not take much time. Study them and read carefully.
    Rex

  • Shining One
    Shining One

    >That you for putting it so succiently.

    You're welcome, Perry

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit