Watchtower Teach That Jesus Is A Spirit?

by RevFrank 5 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • RevFrank
    RevFrank

    Many Witnesses say that when Jesus was resurrected He came back as a spirit. Yet their own authority, New Worlds Translation of the Holy Spirit, state different.........."See My hand and my feet, that is I Myself; feel Me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have."(Luke 24:39)

    (DICTIONARY)

    Resurrected= return from the dead

    Reincarnation= embodiment in a new form (especially the reappearance or a person in another form)

    So..what does the watchtower teach? Reincarnation or resurrection? The Witnesses teach that Jesus came back in another body....meaning reincarnation..And I was taught, Elders told me, that Jesus came back as a different person..isn't that reincarnation?

    the Hindu or Buddhist doctrine that person may be reborn successively into one of five classes of living beings (god or human or animal or hungry ghost or denizen of hell) depending on the person's own actions . That's reincarnation

  • Star Moore
    Star Moore

    Hi Frank:

    Here is an excerpt from the Insite book by the WT...

    After Jesus’ resurrection he appeared in different bodies. Mary mistook him for the gardener. (Joh 20:14, 15) He again appeared, entering a room with locked doors, having a body with wound marks. (Joh 20:24-29) Several times he manifested himself and was recognized, not by his appearance, but by his words and actions. (Lu 24:15, 16, 30, 31, 36-45; Mt 28:16-18) Once a miracle performed at his direction opened his disciples’ eyes to his identity. (Joh 21:4-7, 12) Jesus, having been resurrected as a spirit (1Pe 3:18), could materialize a body for the occasion as the angels did in past times, when they appeared as messengers.

    IPet. 3:18 NIV For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison..

    I liked your scripture, about Jesus saying, he was not a spirit.. So, was he, in and out of a spirit body, to a fleshly body...? What do you think?

  • RevFrank
    RevFrank

    Good point Star Moore, no where in scripture does the Bible say that Jesus was in a different body..That would be reincarnation...Scripture clearly states what Jesus was..His resurrection was His Body,,

    Read Luke 24: 16, then 31....

    The watchtower has tried to alter the word from resurrection to reincarnation....they did that successful with the JWs.

    Reincarnation clearly means after death one may come back in another body.

    Resurrection means coming back to life as one dies. Nothing changed, but to have a glorfied body, yet the same man. Jesus had all the power and glory of God.

    So in Luke 24:16 & 31, Jesus held their eyes closed until it was time.

  • Star Moore
    Star Moore

    Wow, how interesting.....! The Wt teaches reincarnation....how funny... I read your scriptures... Let me print them out for the friends...

    Luke 24:16 NIV But they were kept from recognizing him.

    Luke 24:31 NIV Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight.

    I never knew why they didn't recognize him..so I just accepted the WT version. Reincarnation....!!!

    Resurrection means coming back to life as one dies. Nothing changed, but to have a glorfied body, yet the same man. Jesus had all the power and glory of God.

    good point!!!!!

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    Hi everyone, here is a small piece of the extensive research I have done on this very topic. If you would like a full copy of this research, feel free to pm me your email address, Lilly

    Did Jesus Have A Bodily Resurrection or was he raised a spirit?

    Didn’t Christ give up his body forever as our ransom ?

    When setting the precedent for dealing with situations involving a death, Jehovah God set the standard when he gave the Mosaic Laws to the nation of Israel. In Exodus 21:23 it states where there is a serious injury (fatality) then you must take “a life for a life”. A life lost will be replaced by a life given on its behalf.

    When Adam lost the opportunity for all his progeny to receive everlasting life upon the earth, Jehovah sent his son to ransom us (release us) from this destiny. Romans chapter 5:18 says; Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.

    We know that Adam did not give up his right to a body but his opportunity for everlasting life. Adam lived on in his body for hundreds of more years, eventually dying and returning to dust. What he lost was the opportunity for everlasting life. Christ came and gave up his perfect life to buy back the opportunity for everlasting life again. So it was a life for a life, NOT body for body or flesh for flesh.

    That it was Christ’s life that was important is shown by the fact that at the memorial each year we drink of the cup (his blood) and eat the bread (his body). We know these things are not literally his blood and flesh but are representative of his blood and flesh being poured out and broken in our behalf. Or, that his life was given, in our behalf. If Christ’s was resurrected again, in his own body, it would not negate the fact that he DID die (giving up his life) and the ransom was paid.

    Was Christ raised up as an invisible spirit ?

    Many believe that Christ was raised not in his body but as an invisible spirit. The scripture used to support his view is 1Peter 3:18, which we will look at in several Bible translations:

    “Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, that he might lead you to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.” New World Translation

    “He being put to death in the flesh but quickened by the spirit”. King James Version

    For Christ “having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit” New American Standard Bible

    “For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the spirit”. New International Version

    Some reason from this verse that Christ was raised as a spirit being not in his body. But notice that none of these bible translations actually states that Christ was raised as an invisible spirit being. The NWT says made alive in the spirit, not that he was made as a spirit being. The King James says quickened by the spirit. Which simply means made alive by the Spirit or Holy Spirit. Similarly the New International Version says “made alive by the spirit” Therefore, this verse in 1 Peter 3:18 is simply saying that Christ died in the flesh or body, and was made alive again by the Holy Spirit of God. This happened during the resurrection. Again, none say he was made alive as a “spirit being” or as an “invisible spirit being” Nor an “angelic spirit creature”. But are stating that Christ was made alive again by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Lord himself seems to state that he was raised in the body he died in and that he was not a spirit. Knowing that HIS resurrection would be the basis of the Christian’s faith, notice how he proves this to the disciples; Christ says to his disciples when he appeared to them after his resurrection; Luke 24:36-43 states: “While they (the disciples) were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you”. They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence. (NIV) In some Bible translations such as the NWT, the word spirit is used instead of ghost. So verse 37 – 39 reads “ But because they were terrified, and had become frightened, they were imagining they beheld a spirit. So he said to them: “Why are you troubled, and why is it doubts come up in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; feel me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have. Christ is saying again, that he is not a ghost or spirit (spirit being) but that it is he, the same one put to death in the body and raised by Holy Spirit. He also has flesh and bones (*no blood) like a man does. You can touch and feel him. Our Lord also eats something to prove it is he resurrected back in the body he died in and he is not a spirit. He had to prove to them he was indeed raised, as this is what our faith is based upon, the resurrection of our Lord and the hope that although we die, we will have a resurrection too. Again showing he was in the same body he was put to death in, the Lord appeared to doubting Thomas in John 20:26,27 and it says; A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Thought the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said “Peace be with you!” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe”. If the Lord in these accounts was not in HIS body but another one, wouldn’t he have been deceiving the disciples by telling them otherwise?

    The Lord himself said his body would be raised again at John 2:19-21. It says; Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days”. The Jews replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” But the temple he had spoken of was his body. If he were in another body and were a spirit and was not raised in the body he died in, than this statement in John would not have been fulfilled. As he said the temple, his body would be raised up. Christ’s literal body had to be raised in order for it to actually be a resurrection. According to Strong Greek Dictionary word 386, the word used for Christ resurrection was “anastasis” which means a standing up again, literally a resurrection from death. (See Acts 2:31, 4:33,Romans 6:5) It does not mean being changed into a spirit being without a body. It means that the literal body was raised again to life. The same word “anastasis” was used for the resurrection of both Lazarus and Jairus’ daughter, and is recorded in Luke chapter 11 and both were raised up in their physical bodies.

    Why did his followers not recognize Jesus ?

    The full accounts of the resurrection of our Lord Jesus can be found by looking up the following verses in their complete context; Matthew 28:1-10, Mark 16:1-15, Luke 24:1-34 and John 20: 1- 22. Please look up these accounts and prayerfully read them before preceding any further.

    There are some slight variations in these texts. Some accounts include more detail than others. For instance when Jesus appeared to the disciples on the Road to Emmaus, Luke recorded the full account of this event in Luke 24:13-32 but Mark records a very shortened version of this account in Mark 16:12,13. Some accounts show the woman crying and weeping before they saw the Lord; some just say the Lord appeared to them. By looking up all the above quoted texts about the Lord’s resurrection you can get a better picture of all the events that took place. We will look here at some of the “evidence” given to support the view that the Lord was raised not in his body but as a spirit who materialized in different bodies so that the disciples could believe that he had risen from the dead.

    It is argued that when Jesus appeared to the women and then the men, they at first did not recognize him, which proves he was in a different body. In the Account in Matthew 28 verses 8,9 it states that Jesus appeared to them while they were hurrying to tell the others that Angels told them that Jesus had risen. When suddenly Jesus appeared to them, and gave them a greeting, they fell at his feet and worshiped him. Matthew notes nothing here about the women not knowing this was the Lord Jesus. Mark also records in Mark 16:9 that Jesus appeared to the women first but nothing is said about them not recognizing him. But, in verse 12 and 13 of Mark 16, it states; Afterwards Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them (the men) while they were walking in the country. These returned and reported it to the rest but they did not believe them either. Here it states that Jesus was in a different form. But did this mean a different body or does this mean something else? We can get a better picture by reading the other accounts of the resurrection. Luke gives the most details of the same appearance to the two men mentioned in Mark 16:12,13, on the road to Emmaus. The full account is recorded in Luke 24:13-32.

    In this account we can understand what Jesus appearing in different form means. Luke 24:16 says these two men were “kept from recognizing him”. So we can see that it was not because Jesus was in a different body that they did not recognized him. But because they were kept from recognizing him, therefore he may have altered his state or just blinded their eyes so they could not see him clearly. In verses 14-32 we can see why the Lord did not reveal himself right away. It is because the disciples still did not understand that Christ had to die and be raised up according to the scriptures. Many did not believe when the women said he was raised, and when the two men on the road said he was raised. Jesus reproves them for their lack of understanding at Luke 24:25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” In verse 31, the Lord finally opened their eyes so that they could recognize him. Once their eyes were opened, they saw him instantly and knew it was the Lord.

    In John’s account at John 20:10-18, the Apostle John notes that Mary did not recognize the Lord at first. This verse is also used to prove the different body theory. But, this could be because he also at first kept her from recognizing him as he did with the men. Or, it could have been because she was in a state of shock at his death and in a state of grief. John notes that Mary stood weeping and crying outside the tomb. It was also early dawn so it may have still been dark. John also records that Mary had not been facing the Lord as he says in verse 14, that Mary turned towards the Lord when he spoke to her, asking why she was crying. And apparently she still did not face Jesus head on because in verse 16, upon hearing him call her Mary, it states again that she turned towards him. Apparently this time, she turned facing him and did then recognize him. So, none of these accounts say they did not recognize Jesus because he was in another body. Being in another form is better understood when you read all the accounts and see that Jesus was purposely trying to hide who he was until he knew what they were thinking. Thus, he could use the opportunity to help them get the proper understanding of his resurrection.

    Does not “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom” prove you must be a spirit with no body to enter heaven ?

    It is reasoned that since Christ told Nicodemus that we must be born again to enter heaven, he was referring to the fact that we needed to be changed into a spirit being to enter heaven. As, flesh and blood cannot go to heaven. It is reasoned that flesh and blood refers to mankind’s physical body. While it is true that the Lord said this, we need to better understand what is meant by flesh and blood. Sometimes the bible uses that term NOT to apply to our literal flesh and literal blood of our bodies themselves but to refer to natural man in his current state. Here are some scriptural examples of this:

    Hebrews 2:14 since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity

    Ephesians 6:12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” (NIV)

    Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, “Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: For flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my father which is in heaven”.

    The most often verse used to prove that we cannot enter heaven in our bodies (flesh and blood) is one found in 1 Corinthians 15:50, here Paul says “I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. The first part is often quoted but the latter part, which shows that this flesh and blood refers to man in his current natural state, is left out entirely. To better understand that Paul does not mean the actual flesh and blood body but the natural state of man (fallen man) before a heavenly resurrection, we have to read the account in its entirety. It helps us to see clearly other points of what Paul was expressing, some of which I will underline and boldface.

    1 Corinthians 15:35-54 states; But someone may ask, How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come? How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed, he gives its own body. All flesh is not the same; Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another, and fish another. There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of earthly bodies is another. The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another, and the stars another, and star differs from star in splendor. So it will be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown in perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So it is written; “The first man Adam became a living being” the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural. The first man was of dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the likeness of earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven. I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet, for the trumpet will sound, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory”.

    Paul is showing the “change” that man will have. He does not give up his body as a man and become a spirit being, but his body is changed when it is clothed with immortality, and clothed with the imperishable. It states if there is a human body there is also a spiritual body. Just as we bear the likeness of man, we will bear the likeness of the heavenly man. (Jesus) Notice that both exist together. This is a new nature, a change, but also continuance of the old man. Clothed meaning to wrap ourselves with. So we (our bodies) are clothed with imperishable and immortal qualities. Thus, we become a new creation. So in this text the term “flesh and blood” simply refers to man in his current condition. As we know in our current condition, fallen man who is imperfect, perishable and weak, and mortal, we cannot enter heaven. (Not to Say the Lord was weak or imperfect but he was still in nature human) These bodies (human) we currently possess cannot enter the heavenly sphere. But the time will come when what is written here in 1 Corinthians will be completed in us and then, we will become something other than mere flesh and bones. We will all be changed and we will be made perfect and glorified, having our human qualities but with the better spiritual qualities and characteristics combined together. This is when we are “born again” into the new creation. Nowhere here does it say that our humanity disappears and we become some type of spirit creature. We will have both, our human and spiritual side which will be joined into a new being.

    Didn’t Christ say, “In a little while and the world will see me no more”?

    The scripture that is quoted frequently by those who believe in the invisible presence is the one that Jesus states; “in a little while, you will see me no more”. (KIV). Thus it is reasoned that Jesus said no one would see him any more that must mean because he will be a spirit. This bible text found in John 16:16 is usually not quoted in entirety. Here is the entire verse; “In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me”. Since the disciples did not understand what Jesus meant and kept asking, “What does he mean by a little while?” Verse 18, Jesus gives them a detailed explanation in John 16:19-24, which shows he was talking about his death and resurrection. They would soon not see him, when he died. But then, will see him again once he was resurrected. He tells them they will grieve and mourn but then be joyous. And they did grieve and mourn and did not fully understand his death, until he came back. Then they understood more and were joyous. (The whole account is John 16:17-24)

    So clearly the Lord is not saying that the world will never see him again.

    RE: blood

    When the Lord was raised up he told his disciples that he had “flesh and bones” not “flesh and blood”. This gives us a look into what our possible future bodies will be like. Perhaps part of our “change” will be that we will no longer need blood to feed our bodies and carry oxygen for our cells. Remember, that if immortal, we will have “life in ourselves”. Therefore we will not be dependent on what our body depends on now for that life. The bible says our life is in our blood. Therefore, blood will probably not be needed to support our new, heavenly bodies

  • RevFrank
    RevFrank

    Well said Star Moore, I'm glad I helped, but don't thank me. Thank God to allow you to see it....Be of Peace........

    As for Lovelylilly, again...you explain it in a more easier reading then I could. And no one really think of this one subject....that is...flesh and blood and flesh and bones. When Christ rose from the dead, He had no blood in His body. He gave up His life giving blood on the cross.

    Some jws speculate that Christ took His bood to the Father in heaven..where He was(((suppose))) to have an alter there....to do it over again...yet the alter was the cross.......

    Peace Be Unto you.......

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