Can the WT answer these questions about the 144,000 and the great crowd?

by Honesty 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Honesty

  *** w02 5/1 p. 30 Questions From Readers
  
  *** W hen John saw the "great crowd" rendering sacred service in Jehovah’s temple, in which part of the temple were they doing this?—Revelation 7:9-15.
  It is reasonable to say that the great crowd worships Jehovah in one of the earthly courtyards of his great spiritual temple, specifically the one that corresponds with the outer courtyard of Solomon’s temple. This article in the May 1, 2002 WATCHTOWER brings up a plethora of questions that deserve an answer.
  

  * Where does the bible specifically state that the great crowd is worshiping in the outer courtyard?
  
  * According to Rev 11:19 where is God's sanctuary?
  
  (God’s sanctuary in heaven was opened) Rev. 11:19
  
  
  * According to Rev 7:13-15 where is the great crowd worshiping God?
  
  Then one of the elders asked me, “Who are these people robed in white, and where did they come from?”
  
  I said to him, “Sir, you know.”
  Then he told me:
  These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation.
  They washed their robes and made them white
  in the blood of the Lamb.
  For this reason they are before the throne of God,
  and they serve Him day and night in His sanctuary.* How can the great crowd be on earth worshiping God when the bible says they are in His sanctuary?
  * What does the bible say about the sanctuary and the outer courtyard?
  Rev 11:1-2 Then I was given a measuring reed like a rod, with these words: “Go and measure God’s sanctuary and the altar, and [count] those who worship there. 2 But exclude the courtyard outside the sanctuary. Don’t measure it, because it is given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for 42 months.
  
  * If 144,000 is a literal number then why would John be told to count those worshiping in the sanctuary?* Wouldn't John already know from Rev. 7:4 how many were in the sanctuary if 144,000 were a literal number of people?* If the courtyard is where the great crowd worships then, according to God's word what are they doing to the holy city according to Rev. 11:1-2?* Is this the great crowd that will be worshiping God?* How can the great crowd be on earth worshiping God when the bible says they are in His sanctuary and according to the bible the people in the outer courtyard are trampling the holy city.
  * Do you personally want to be in the outer courtyard trampling the holy city while God's people are serving Him in His sanctuary?
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  AuldSoul

  Very nice line of reasoning, Honesty! Thank you.

  [busily adding to arsenal] Very nice, indeed.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  drew sagan

  I love that technique, it's so wonderful. Tell the membership anything you want to back up your teachings, youv'e kept them so dulled down to real critical thinking they don't even know how to question the answer!
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  greendawn

  No doubt the sanctuary is the temple proper which is only accesible to priests which shows that the great crowd are priests and identical to the 144000, in heaven not on earth.
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  Honesty

  I wouldn't have been able to actually put this together and compile it without the Holy Spirit.

  He deserves all the credit for posing the questions that break through Satan's line of defense against the truths of God's word which keeps the Jehovah's Witnesses from being able to bask in the light of God's unchanging Word.

  Credit is also rendered to the following website which has allowed many of us who are not privy to access the writings of WATCHTOWER ministers who are themselves unable to bask in the light of God's word due to the blinding effects of the ruler of this world. We should applaud the courage of individuals who take a stand for truth as they expose the unscriptural doctrines advocated by those who would presumptuously assume the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ:

  http://www.reexamine.org/index.php/Main_Page
• 

  Honesty

  No doubt the sanctuary is the temple proper which is only accesible to priests which shows that the great crowd are priests and identical to the 144000, in heaven not on earth.

  * Rev. 7:1-8 and Rev. 5:9-10 does not identify the people as being the same people at all. They are decidedly different:

  Rev. 7:4 identifies the 144,000 as coming "from every tribe of the sons of Israel," while the priests and kings of Rev. 5:9, who will rule over the earth, "come out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation."

  Threfore those in Rev. 5:9-10 are not the 144,000. A comparison with the words of Rev. 7:9 will reveal that they are actually the great crowd. It is the great crowd who "comes out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues."

  * How do you reconcile the following using the bible?

  Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed:
  144,000 sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

  Is Rev. 5:9-10 and Rev. 7:9 in harmony with each other?

  Rev 5:9-10 You redeemed [people] for God by Your blood
  from every tribe and language and people and nation.
  You made them a kingdom and priests to our God,
  and they will reign over the earth.

  Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and there was a vast multitude from every nation, tribe, people, and language, which no one could number, standing before the throne and before the Lamb.

  The 144,000 haven't been sealed yet because the Great Tribulation mentioned in Revelation Chapter 6 has not started.
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  greendawn

  The truth of God is never changing but that of the fox like WTS is for ever shifting and therefore it can not be from God. As simple as that despite the ridiculous new light concepts, what kind of a God is it that can not give his followers the right light from the beginning? And instead gives them several times false light before he finally gives the right one. Is he playing games with them, even putting lives at risk?
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  Atlantis

  Honesty:

  Beautifully done! Thank you for that well prepared research!

  Cheers!