The Diginty of Atheism

by SickofLies 8 Replies latest jw friends

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  SickofLies

  FOR centuries, we have been told that without religion we are no more than egotistic animals fighting for our share, our only morality that of a pack of wolves; only religion, it is said, can elevate us to a higher spiritual level. Today, when religion is emerging as the wellspring of murderous violence around the world, assurances that Christian or Muslim or Hindu fundamentalists are only abusing and perverting the noble spiritual messages of their creeds ring increasingly hollow. What about restoring the dignity of atheism, one of Europe's greatest legacies and perhaps our only chance for peace?

  More than a century ago, in "The Brothers Karamazov" and other works, Dostoyevsky warned against the dangers of godless moral nihilism, arguing in essence that if God doesn't exist, then everything is permitted. The French philosopher André Glucksmann even applied Dostoyevsky's critique of godless nihilism to 9/11, as the title of his book, "Dostoyevsky in Manhattan," suggests.

  This argument couldn't have been more wrong: the lesson of today's terrorism is that if God exists, then everything, including blowing up thousands of innocent bystanders, is permitted — at least to those who claim to act directly on behalf of God, since, clearly, a direct link to God justifies the violation of any merely human constraints and considerations.
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  Narkissos

  Interesting post.

  I think atheism is a vital part of a pluralistic and open legacy.

  I would not deem it better than any other worldview though. Certainly not a token of morality per se, anymore than any religious belief.

  And, should I add, questioning morals as well as religion is also essential to humanity.
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  jstalin

  As an atheist, I base my moral views on the concept of natural rights. Each human being, for the simple fact that he/she is a human, has the right to his life, liberty, and property. That is as consistent as it becomes.

  In the religious view, what god decides is what is right. God's will makes the laws. God's will turns morality into moral relativism. If god decides to kill off a city of people, then killing people is ok. If he decides that not killing people is the law, then we shouldn't kill people. In my view, the religious view is the relativistic and egotistic moral stand.
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  Narkissos

  In the religious view, what god decides is what is right. God's will makes the laws. God's will turns morality into moral relativism. If god decides to kill off a city of people, then killing people is ok. If he decides that not killing people is the law, then we shouldn't kill people. In my view, the religious view is the relativistic and egotistic moral stand.

  The relationship between morality and religion is a complex one.

  In polytheism, morality is pretty independent from the gods which can be good or bad, sometimes good and sometimes bad, etc.

  Even in monotheism it is not all that clear, at least on a practical level. Each times a monotheist says that God is "good," "right," "just," doesn't s/he measure "God" to a logically autonomous moral principle? Monotheism is rarely led to its amoral conclusion which would make such doxologies plain tautologies.

  On the other hand, given the "suspension of ethics" which religion often brings about (cf. Kierkegaard on Abraham's sacrifice, for instance), one can wonder if a non-religious morality would not become absolute totalitarianism.

  One important function of religion might be its potential immoralism. If God is dead who will save us from morals?
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  james_woods

  I must disagree that "Athiesm" has an inherent dignity. Some of the extremely strident and activist athiests ( usually these are the most famous, too ) are anything but dignified. Take that guy in SanFran wailing on about "one nation under god". If a person were so above religion and so sure of that, why would you care?

  Remember Madalyn Murray O'Hair? She was running a pathetic little athiest money-cult out of her house here in Dallas. Then she just disappeared. Rumors abounded for a while that some religious nuts had offed her. Turned out that her relatives had killed her for money (gold coins!), chopped her up, and buried her in a 55 gal. oil barrel.

  Remember Joseph Stalin? No religion there while the massacre went on. Hitler? Believed in various occult stuff but not apparantly god per se.

  Hard Line Athiests are not necessarily free of some pretty strange beliefs. I know many who are ardent UFO cult people, others who believe in a sort of spirit occultism (not satanists, though) and several who see nothing wrong with doing Scientology at the same time claiming athiesm. Am going to the funeral for one tomorrow in a Unitarian church - you can be a member there and be a new-ager or athiest.

  For the record, I am basically scientific agnostic and a great sceptic. However, I don't think it is morally right to push my view on someone else. (or claim a particular dignity upon it).

  Sincerely, James
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  SickofLies

  For the record, I am basically scientific agnostic and a great sceptic. ; However, I don't think it is morally right to push my view on someone else. (or claim a particular dignity upon it).

  I merely put out an idea for people to think about, I take no moral stand on the matter and am a big believer in freedom or religion and choice. However, I do believe that Atheist have every right to feel diginifed in their beliefs, just as christrians or muslims do. While there are certianly examples of atheists who were 'bad people' or at least had some strange ideas, but I think (and this is just my opinion) that there are many many more extreem examples among religious patrons than there are among atheists.
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  peacefulpete

  If God is dead who will save us from morals?

  Succinctly said! Ethics police replacing religious fundamentalism. Is it possible? I feel that the legislative and judicial systems presently demonstrate the workability of a secular code of conduct. It is true that narrow religious interests constantly pressure the system (or take credit for its loftier aspects) but the resistance born of public diversity is generally sufficient to resist idealogues and their agenda. Even if the impossible happened and the world became Atheists there could, and I believe would, still exist a healthy diversity as broad as at present. What we have to ensure then is diversity. Freedom to formulate opinions along with training in critical thinking and cultural appreciation is what will save the world.
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  theinfamousone

  FOR centuries, we have been told that without religion we are no more than egotistic animals fighting for our share

  all i can say is whats so wronwith being an animal???? i mean, we all really are... we need food, shelter, love and air to live... how does intelligence make us less animal than other animals??? is a degu less animal than a rat cuz its smarter???? i dont know... i am an animal, and proud of it!!!

  the infamous one
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  osmosis

  SickOfLies: I wonder if you were talking somewhat not about atheism, but of skepticism. Atheism is simply lack of belief in god, no particular dignity there, especially in a world that favors the believer. However I might agree that there is an inherent dignity in skepticism, that not believing everything you hear is a somewhat dignified approach.