Day star and Lucifer? 1pete 1 : Isaiah 14

by IP_SEC 7 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • IP_SEC
    IP_SEC

    Is there any connection you can see between the “Lucifer” of Isaiah 14:12-14 and the day star of 2 Peter 1:19?

    Vulgate/Sept: luxferre/light bearer, heosphoros/morning star/day star
    Greek: 1Pete: phosphoros/Dawn star/day star

    Also if you read Isaiah 14 is not the morning star the king of Babylon?

    Is there a possibility that Son of the Dawn/Morning Star was a title of the king of Babylon.

    Is there any reason you can see to apply this scripture to anyone other than the king of Babylon?

    Leo? Nark? PP?

  • daystar
    daystar

    Evidence I've seen leads me to believe that there is. However, I also find the same sort of connection between Lucifer and Jesus.

    I also think that "Day Star", "morning star" etc. (Venus) may have originally referred to the king of Babylon. But as in most things, I find it more interesting what it means to us today. "Daystar" etc. has built up a set of symbolisms beyond just the king of Babylon.

    And now I'll step aside and let the real bible scholars address this.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    Is there any reason you can see to apply this scripture to anyone other than the king of Babylon?

    Well, the author is applying the language to the king of Babylon, but the language itself draws on Canaanite myth, in a manner similar to Ezekiel 28 which relates another humiliation story (this time, of the king of Tyre). Both stories utilize traditional mythic elements; in the case of the story in Isaiah: (1) the Rephaim shades of the underworld stirred to greet the new arrival (Isaiah 14:9-11), (2) the name Helel ben-Shahar, evoking the god Shahar of Canaanite myth (who represents the planet Venus with his brother Dusk) in v. 12, (3) the reference to the "stars of El" in v. 13, (4) the reference to the "mount of assembly", i.e. the divine council, in the same verse, (5) the reference to Mount Zaphon, (6) the reference to Elyon in v. 14.

    The mythic identity of Helel, the son of Shahar however is hard to pin down. Mark Smith recognizes that the text is really a confused jumble of motifs applying to various different gods, applied to one individual. One attractive suggestion is that Athtar lies behind the passage, because there is a myth about Athtar (who once represented Venus along with his wife Athtart = Ishtar) and how he was humiliated after trying to build his palace in place of Baal after Baal died (i.e. in Zaphon, on top of the thunderclouds), but who was demoted when Baal returned from the dead. Another suggestion that has been made is the god Elil, the Canaanite version of the Sumerian god Enlil, who was replaced by Baal in the history of the cult. Neither suggestion is entirely satisfactory, as John Day suggests.

    As for 2 Peter, the usage is similar to Revelation....Perhaps there is a connection with the Greek god Phospheros, maybe not....I would have to check my sources....

  • IP_SEC
    IP_SEC
    Daystar" etc. has built up a set of symbolisms

    All daystar symbolizes for me today is a cool poster on JWD.

  • IP_SEC
    IP_SEC
    the name Helel ben-Shahar, evoking the god Shahar of Canaanite myth (who represents the planet Venus with his brother Dusk) in v. 12, (3) the reference to the "stars of El" in v. 13, (4) the reference to the "mount of assembly", i.e. the divine council, in the same verse, (5) the reference to Mount Zaphon, (6) the reference to Elyon in v. 14.

    AhhHaaa! Ok that was a missing link for me. Thank you Leo!

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    As far as the Canaanite material in Isaiah 14:12ff is concerned, the fall of heylel into She'ol may have been the mythological/ritual translation (whence the mourning style) of the cyclical disappearing of a planet (or perhaps the moon) out of the observable sky.

    Of course this material is used in a demythologised, political way in the extant book of Isaiah -- against the "king of Babylon," which suggests an exilic date, although it perhaps modifies an older oracle against an Assyrian king, Sargon or Sennacherib.

    As to the use of astral symbolism in early christology, you can add the Magi in Matthew 2, the "dawn" (anatolè = rising star/sun) in Luke 1:78 and the "morning star" (prôinos) in Revelation 2:28; 22:16.

    One interesting detail is that the astral symbolism of anatolè in Luke may refer either to the astral "prophecy" of Balaam (Numbers 24:17) or to an astral reinterpretation of non-astral texts, for instance about the "germ, sprout or branch" in Jeremiah 3:5 etc. (LXX anatolè).

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    I'm flattered you included me so I thought I should say something. Here's a thread that queried the identification of Lucifer in Isaiah. Zephaniah seems to have had a version of this section of Isaiah that identified Lucifer with the King of Assyria. Was Isaiah updated? This reconstruction certainly better fits the context, time of writing (8thcentury) and description.

    Isaiah 13-14 Assyria or Babylon?

    And just building upon Narkissos' comment; As I'm more and more inclined to understand the Gospels to have been written as parable, the nativity star itself may have been a literary allusion to the "star" of Balaam's prophecy.

  • IP_SEC
    IP_SEC

    Thanks for the comments. They've given me a better idea of where and what to look at.

    Ya pete, I think youre a pretty smart dude too.

    Thanks again

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