I have a 1985 edition of the KIT and have heard that there are many places that the NWT was translated erroneously and that it can be proven by this. John 14:14 is one of the places I have found to support this. Can you show me other others?
Where the KIT and NWT differ (Jn 14:14). Do you have more?!
by whyizit 4 Replies latest jw friends
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AuldSoul
John 10:16 is not technically mistranslated, because "of" can mean "from" or "out of." However, they take that English word as translated an apply it as "in," "within," or "among." It is clear from studying the literal meaning that their application is based on—at best—a poorly clarified translation.
KIT—And other sheep I am having which not is out of the fold this; and those it is necessary me to lead, and of the voice of me they will hear, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.
NWT—And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.
The meaning is clear in the original, there are two sources (two folds from which sheep will come) and one destination (one flock into which sheep will go). Jehovah's Witnesses use their translation to pervert the meaning of the original Greek. They teach that there are two sources (anointed and other sheep who are not anointed) and one destination (congregations springing up in the 20th Century), to be divided again later into two destinations (heaven and "paradise earth").
The most interesting Greek word in that verse, in my opinion, is "tautes," translated "this." In the dative feminine form used here, it means "in this very spot, here" with "currently present" being the inescapable temporal concept.
John 10:21 shows that he was still in the same conversation recorded as beginning in John 9:35. The division that resulted was between those who were angered and irritated with what he said and those who were seeing his opening the blind man's eyes as proof of his statements. So, since there were no anointed Christians present at the time what fold was currently present that he was calling sheep "out of?" How did it differ from a later fold that sheep would be called "out of?"
Another occurence that is pretty platant mistranslation is in Colossians 1:13-20. The bracketed insertion of "[other]" has no cause in the original texts, although the concept they are trying to impose by the insertion is readily available in Greek if that was what the writer intended to convey.
BTW,
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
Narkissos
AuldSoul,
We just had an interesting discussion of John 10:16: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/105820/1.ashx
(You will note that while agreeing with your point I challenged the two-folds theory: there is actually one fold, which is mentioned in v. 1).
Btw tautès, as well as aulès, is genitive (the natural case with ek, from), but your general argument stands.
Back to the topic, I find the KIT great for pointing out the disruption of meaning resulting from the substitution of "Jehovah" to kurios, especially in Romans 10 and 14 (especially if you notice the line of reasoning and the central importance of the noun kurios and the related verb kurieuô: it is very clear that kurios is an integral part of the original writing).
Also, the Johannine uses of en mistranslated as "in union with", especially in reciprocal expressions (such as "I am in you and you are in me") which are turned into tautologies ("I am in union with you and you are in union with me"). (Logically "in" is not commutative, "in union with" is.)
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AuldSoul
Ah, yes. I see your point. Thanks, Narksissos. I am still only an interested student, not a scholar.
One fold (i.e. natural Israel, the only "this" fold that was evident and present at the time) and other sheep who will also be brought into one flock with one shepherd. But in the case of both the sheep from the one fold currently present and the other sheep, they are being brought along into the one flock.
And the translation of en into "in union with" is not restricted to writings attributed to John. (Romans 8:1, 2, 10; 12:5; 16:7; 1 Corinthians 1:2, 30; 15:18; 16:24; 2 Corinthians 5:17; 12:2; 13:5 and many others)
There are 14 occurrences in Ephesians alone. One of the strangest, to me, is Galatians 2:20.
Galatians 2:20 — I am impaled along with Christ. It is no longer I that live, but it is Christ that is living in union with me. (NWT)
Obviously, this makes no sense. Attention was drawn to Jesus actually being what he said he was, "the way and the truth and the life." But that concept is removed by this translation.
But none of this should concern us. Being "other sheep" it only applies to us by extension in the ways permitted by the Faithful and Discreet Slave™ "class" (pen name for the Governing Body™ All Rights Reserved, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.).
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
bennyk
In 1 Thess. 4:17, the NWT leaves the Greek word "hama" ("at the same time") UNTRANSLATED.
