Problems in the bible

by Vormek2.8 5 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Vormek2.8
    Vormek2.8

    Historical problems, inconsistencies, and contradictions comprise a significant part of the Bible:

    • (1) "Thirty and two years old was he (Jehoram--Ed.) when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem 8 years, and departed without being desired. Howbeit they buried him in the city of David, but not in the sepulchres of the kings" (2 Chron. 21:20) and "the inhabitants of Jerusalem made Ahaziah his youngest son king in his stead.... So Ahaziah the son of Jehoram king of Judah reigned. Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign...." (1 Chron. 22:1-2). If Jehoram began to reign at age 32 and ruled 8 years, then he died at age 40. Yet, his son took over at age 42. Imagine a son two years older than his father!
    • (2) "In the thirty and first (31st) year of Asa king of Judah began Omri to reign over Israel, twelve years:...." (1 Kings 16:23) versus "So Omri slept with his fathers, and was buried in Samaria and Ahab his son reigned in his stead. And in the thirty and eighth (38th) year of Asa king of Judah began Ahab the son of Omri to reign over Israel" (1 Kings 16:28-29). How could Omri have reigned 12 years if he ruled from the 31st to the 38th year of Asa's rule? And how could Ahab have taken over from his father Omri in the 38th year of Asa's rule when Omri didn't give up his rule until the 43rd year of Asa's rule (31 + 12=43)?
    • (3) "Solomon had three score and ten thousand (70,000) that bare burdens, and four score thousand (80,000) hewers in the mountains; Beside the chief of Solomon's officers which were over the work, three thousand and three hundred (3,300) which ruled over the people that wrought in the work" (1 Kings 5:15-16) and "the house which king Solomon built for the Lord, the length thereof was threescore (60) cubits, and the breadth thereof twenty cubits and the height thereof thirty cubits" (1 Kings 6:2) and "...So he was 7 years in building it" (1 Kings 6:38). It took 153,300 men seven years to build a house that was 60 cubits by 20 cubits by 30 cubits or 96 X 32 X 48 feet. The mountain labored and brought forth a mouse.
    • (4) Now, behold, in my (David--Ed.) trouble I have prepared for the house of the Lord an hundred thousand talents of gold, and a thousand thousand talents of silver...." (1 Chron. 22:14). The gold collected amounted to $3 billion and the silver amounted to #2 billion. In other words, David gathered more bullion than was possessed by the Roman Empire at the height of its power.
    • (5) "Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six (666) talents of gold...." (1 Kings 10:14). A talent of gold is worth over $29,000. The chief of a petty, barren district of Asia Minor without significant arts, manufacture, or civilization received $20,000,000 per year. Yet, the Romans only got $22,500,000 from all their Asiatic provinces.
    • (6) "Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The Lord God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the world...." (Ezra 1:2). When did Cyrus rule all the world or all the known world?
    • (7) "...so there fell down slain of Israel five hundred thousand (500,000) chosen men" (2 Chron. 13:17). If this is a correct figure, what a massacre! At Gettysburg, the greatest battle of the Civil War, the defeated army lost fewer than 5,000 men or 1/100th the number.
    • (8) "It came to pass in the four hundred and eightieth (480th) year after the children of Israel were come out of the land of Egypt, in the 4th year of Solomon's reign over Israel...." (1 Kings 6:1) versus "About the time of forty years suffered he their manners in the wilderness. And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Canaan, he divided their land to them by lot. And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of 450 years until Samuel the prophet (who lived before Solomon--Ed.)." If there were 480 years between the time they left Egypt until the 4th year of Solomon's reign and Judges ruled for 450 of these years, then that would mean that Saul and David, both of whom lived before Solomon, could only have ruled for a total of 30 years. Yet, David, alone, ruled 40 years as 2 Sam. 5:4 ("David was 30 years old when he began to reign, and he reigned 40 years") shows.
    • (9) "The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the Lord thy God" (Ex. 23:19). Exodus was supposedly written by Moses. Yet, how could this verse have been written before the time of Solomon; for God had no house prior to the erection of the temple in 1004 B.C. which was 447 years after Moses? When David proposed to build god a house He forbade it and said he had never lived in a house since they left Egypt. "Whereas I have not dwelt in any house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle" (2 Sam. 7:6).
    • (10) "Your children shall wander in the wilderness for forty years...." (Num. 14:33). Does "wander" mean "lost?" If so, how could they be lost for 40 years in an area only 400 miles wide at its widest part?
    • (11) "Huram said moreover, Blessed be the Lord God of Israel that made heaven and earth...." (2 Chron. 2:12). Hiram, king of Tyre, was not a Jew. Would he have said that the God of Israel made heaven and earth?
    • (12) "Abijah set the battle in array with an army of valiant men of war, even 400,000 chosen men; Jeroboam also set the battle in array against him with 800,000 chosen men, being mighty men of valour" (2 chron. 13:3). All these soldiers were Jews; all lived in Palestine, a poor miserable little country about 1/4th the size of New York. Yet, 1,200,000 soldiers were put in the field. This would have required a population of 10 to 12 million which is absurd. Palestine could have barely supported 2,000,000.
    • (13) "and the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah: and he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools, if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but it be a daughter, then she shall live" (Ex. 1:15-16). Would the Pharoah have entrusted the execution of a command on which he thought the safety of the kingdom depended, to Hebrews. It is all but certain that the midwives were Egyptian not Hebrew. Shiphrah and Puah are Egyptian names. Josephus says they were Egyptian (Antiq. B2, Ch. 9:2).
  • Muffinman
  • hooberus
    hooberus
  • (12) "Abijah set the battle in array with an army of valiant men of war, even 400,000 chosen men; Jeroboam also set the battle in array against him with 800,000 chosen men, being mighty men of valour" (2 chron. 13:3). All these soldiers were Jews; all lived in Palestine, a poor miserable little country about 1/4th the size of New York. Yet, 1,200,000 soldiers were put in the field. This would have required a population of 10 to 12 million which is absurd. Palestine could have barely supported 2,000,000.
  • Previously I took the time to deal in debth with this claim. Here are info from previous posts:

    The number of combatants in 2 Chronicles 13 is certainly possible.

    Firstly other places in the Old testament give the number of the standing army as being much smaller.

    1 Chronicles 27Commanders of the Army


    1 Now this is the enumeration of the sons of Israel, the heads of fathers' households, the commanders of thousands and of hundreds, and their officers who served the king in all the affairs of the divisions which came in and went out month by month throughout all the months of the year, each division numbering 24,000:

    2 Jashobeam the son of Zabdiel [1] (1) had charge of the first division for the first month; and in his division were 24,000.

    3 He was from the sons of Perez, and was chief of all the commanders of the army for the first month.

    4 Dodai the Ahohite and his division had charge of the division for the second month, Mikloth being the chief officer; and in his division were 24,000.

    5 The third commander of the army for the third month was Benaiah, the son of Jehoiada the priest, as chief; and in his division were 24,000.

    6 This Benaiah was the mighty man of the thirty, and had charge of thirty; and over his division was Ammizabad his son.

    7 The fourth for the fourth month was Asahel the brother of Joab, and Zebadiah his son after him; and in his division were 24,000.

    8 The fifth for the fifth month was the commander Shamhuth the Izrahite; and in his division were 24,000.

    9 The sixth for the sixth month was Ira the son of Ikkesh the Tekoite; and in his division were 24,000.

    10 The seventh for the seventh month was Helez the Pelonite of the sons of Ephraim; and in his division were 24,000.

    11 The eighth for the eighth month was Sibbecai the Hushathite of the Zerahites; and in his division were 24,000.

    12 The ninth for the ninth month was Abiezer the Anathothite of the Benjamites; and in his division were 24,000.

    13 The tenth for the tenth month was Maharai the Netophathite of the Zerahites; and in his division were 24,000.

    14 The eleventh for the eleventh month was Benaiah the Pirathonite of the sons of Ephraim; and in his division were 24,000.

    15 The twelfth for the twelfth month was Heldai the Netophathite of Othniel; and in his division were 24,000.

    This gives a standing army of 288,000 (which may not have all served at one time, but on a rotational schedule)


    1 Now this is the enumeration of the sons of Israel, the heads of fathers' households, the commanders of thousands and of hundreds, and their officers who served the king in all the affairs of the divisions which came in and went out month by month throughout all the months of the year, each division numbering 24,000:

    The combatants in 2 chronicles 13 were alomost certainly not a full time, paid, force of professional soldiers such as the Romans later had.

    I live in Kansas and would estimate the full time paid number of soldiers in the US military from Kansas at approx. 20,000. However if necessary (for example in an all out short term battle with Nebraska) I estimate that a force of 600,000 men of fighting age could be assembled ( 50% of the male population under age 65.) Of course this force could only be sustained fror a short period.

    Kansas Population Statistics

    US Census 2002 Total Population Estimate2,715,884
    2002 Population Under Age 65 Estimate2,360,790
    2002 Population Age 65 and Older Estimate355,094
    2002 Births38,652
    2002 Deaths25,528
    2002 Net International Migration9,200
    2002 Net Internal Migration-8,656

    The number of potential fighters in 2 Chronicles 13 is also backed up by the census taken during the life of David when he "numbered Israel"

    1 Chronicles 21Census Brings Pestilence


    1 (1) Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel.

    2 So David said to Joab and to the princes of the people, " (2) Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan, and bring me word that I may know their number."

    3 Joab said, " (3) May the LORD add to His people a hundred times as many as they are! But, my lord the king, are they not all my lord's servants? Why does my lord seek this thing? Why should he be a cause of guilt to Israel?"

    4 Nevertheless, the king's word prevailed against Joab. Therefore, Joab departed and went throughout all Israel, and came to Jerusalem.

    5 Joab gave the number of the census of all the people to David. And (4) all Israel were 1,100,000 men who drew the sword; and Judah was 470,000 men who drew the sword.

    6 (5) But he did not number Levi and Benjamin among them, for the king's command was abhorrent to Joab.

    This was not the full time standing army which was much smaller. Also the figures above from the census can be matched up precisely with other totals of sub-divisions from other old testament passages. This shows that they were actual numbers and not just made up. I will try to list the accounting later showing the total number of able bodied fighting males in Israel and Judah as well as the figures for the standing army which was much smaller.

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    believe that the standing army for Israel numbered 36,000 (a division of 24,000 from above plus 12,000 Jerusalm guard) and for Judah 30,000 (accoring to Geisler). This gives a total of 66,000 for the full time army at any month, which is reasonable.

    During the time of David, Israel had a "surge" capacity of 1,100,000 and Judah had a "surge" capacity of 500,000. This gives a total of 1,600,000 males of military age. The war described in 2 Chronichles 13 took place probably over 60 years after David's census which would allow the potential military age population to grow well above 1,600,000. Thus there were more than enough men to participate in a short war involving 1,200,000 men.

    During the exodus the number of military age men is listed at around 600,000. Given the long period of time between the exodus and 2 Chronicles 13 there is more than sufficient time for the numbers to grow to that point.

    Today Israel can mobilize a 600,000 person army consisting of "regularly trained reserves" within 72 hours!

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/army.htm

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    Others census' in the Bible are supported by the fact that figures for all the other tribes are also listed and totaled. Hense an actual census.

    Numbers 1The Census of Israel's Warriors


    1 Then the LORD spoke to Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the tent of meeting, on (1) the first of the second month, in the second year after they had come out of the land of Egypt, saying,

    2 " (2) Take a [1] census of all the congregation of the sons of Israel, by their families, by their fathers' households, according to the number of names, every male, head by head

    3 from (3) twenty years old and upward, whoever is able to go out to war in Israel, you and Aaron shall [2] number them by their armies.

    4 "With you, moreover, there shall be a man of each tribe, (4) each one head of his father's household.

    5 "These then are the names of the men who shall stand with you: (5) of Reuben, Elizur the son of Shedeur;

    6 of Simeon, Shelumiel the son of Zurishaddai;

    7 of Judah, (6) Nahshon the son of Amminadab;

    8 of Issachar, Nethanel the son of Zuar;

    9 of Zebulun, Eliab the son of Helon;

    10 of the sons of Joseph: of Ephraim, Elishama the son of Ammihud; of Manasseh, Gamaliel the son of Pedahzur;

    11 of Benjamin, Abidan the son of Gideoni;

    12 of Dan, Ahiezer the son of Ammishaddai;

    13 of Asher, Pagiel the son of Ochran;

    14 of Gad, Eliasaph the son of (7) Deuel;

    15 of Naphtali, Ahira the son of Enan.

    16 "These are they who were (8) called of the congregation, the leaders of their fathers' tribes; they were the (9) heads of [3] divisions of Israel."

    17 So Moses and Aaron took these men who had been designated by name,

    18 and they assembled all the congregation together on the (10) first of the second month. Then they registered by (11) ancestry in their families, by their fathers' households, according to the number of names, from twenty years old and upward, head by head,

    19 just as (12) the LORD had commanded Moses. So he numbered them in the wilderness of Sinai.

    20 (13) Now the sons of Reuben, Israel's firstborn, their genealogical registration by their families, by their fathers' households, according to the number of names, head by head, every male from twenty years old and upward, whoever was able to go out to war,

    21 their numbered men of the tribe of Reuben were 46,500.

    22 (14) Of the sons of Simeon, their genealogical registration by their families, by their fathers' households, their numbered men, according to the number of names, head by head, every male from twenty years old and upward, (15) whoever was able to go out to war,

    23 their numbered men of the tribe of Simeon were 59,300.

    24 (16) Of the sons of Gad, their genealogical registration by their families, by their fathers' households, according to the number of names, from twenty years old and upward, whoever was able to go out to war,

    25 their numbered men of the tribe of Gad were 45,650.

    26 (17) Of the sons of Judah, their genealogical registration by their families, by their fathers' households, according to the number of names, from twenty years old and upward, whoever was able to go out to war,

    27 their numbered men of the tribe of Judah were 74,600.

    28 (18) Of the sons of Issachar, their genealogical registration by their families, by their fathers' households, according to the number of names, from twenty years old and upward, whoever was able to go out to war,

    29 their numbered men of the tribe of Issachar were 54,400.

    30 (19) Of the sons of Zebulun, their genealogical registration by their families, by their fathers' households, according to the number of names, from twenty years old and upward, whoever was able to go out to war,

    31 their numbered men of the tribe of Zebulun were 57,400.

    32 (20) Of the sons of Joseph, namely, of the sons of Ephraim, their genealogical registration by their families, by their fathers' households, according to the number of names, from twenty years old and upward, whoever was able to go out to war,

    33 their numbered men of the tribe of Ephraim were 40,500.

    34 (21) Of the sons of Manasseh, their genealogical registration by their families, by their fathers' households, according to the number of names, from twenty years old and upward, whoever was able to go out to war,

    35 their numbered men of the tribe of Manasseh were 32,200.

    36 (22) Of the sons of Benjamin, their genealogical registration by their families, by their fathers' households, according to the number of names, from twenty years old and upward, whoever was able to go out to war,

    37 their numbered men of the tribe of Benjamin were 35,400.

    38 (23) Of the sons of Dan, their genealogical registration by their families, by their fathers' households, according to the number of names, from twenty years old and upward, whoever was able to go out to war,

    39 their numbered men of the tribe of Dan were 62,700.

    40 (24) Of the sons of Asher, their genealogical registration by their families, by their fathers' households, according to the number of names, from twenty years old and upward, whoever was able to go out to war,

    41 their numbered men of the tribe of Asher were 41,500.

    42 (25) Of the sons of Naphtali, their genealogical registration by their families, by their fathers' households, according to the number of names, from twenty years old and upward, whoever was able to go out to war,

    43 their numbered men of the tribe of Naphtali were 53,400.

    44 These are the ones who were numbered, whom Moses and Aaron numbered, with the leaders of Israel, twelve men, each of whom was of his father's household.

    45 So all the numbered men of the sons of Israel by their fathers' households, from twenty years old and upward, whoever was able to go out to war in Israel,

    46 even all the numbered men were (26) 603,550.

    From counts here it shows that the number of militarily capable men during the time of the Exodus was 603,550. This does not mean that they ware a standing army though, but only that they were "able to go out to war" Also a later count in the book of Numbers gives slightly higher figures for each of the tribes adding up to slightly higher number due to population growth between the two censuses. Thus the book of numbers gives two specific censuses (each one broken down by tribes).

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    For potential answers to the other problems see:

    http://www.tektonics.org

    http://www.tektonics.org/sab/sab.html

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit