C Wah reads apostate literature?

by shadow 9 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • shadow

    Would it be of interest to anyone to note the fact that Carolyn Wah (WT attorney) has publicly stated in writing that she reads "articles and books written by former members"? She makes that statement in this article (see page 162): Authors: Wah, Carolyn R.1 [email protected] Source: Review of Religious Research; Dec2001, Vol. 43 Issue 2, p161-174, 14p

  • AuldSoul

    Wow. That is one that will haunt them. Thank you for sharing that, shadow!


  • serendipity

    It doesn't surprise me one bit. Is she looking for false statements? Too many WT quotes?

  • Leolaia

    Thanks for the reference. I downloaded the article and took a look at it....she mentions the works of former members such as M. James Penton, Gerald Bergman, and Gary Bottling [sic!], but does not give any specific info from these works or any indication that she has actually taken a look at these books. She quotes from Beckford (1975:xi), a non-Witness, only to slight the scholarship of works from former members as "coloured by ideological interests and probably distorted their accounts of the history and present practices of Jehovah's Witnesses" (p. 167). That's how she dismisses the merit of such works, simply by applying a general statement to works published after that statement was written (i.e. Bergman published in 1984, the Bottings published in 1984, Penton published in 1985). For an article that is supposedly a review of "research on Jehovah's Witnesses", she gives no discussion of these works themselves aside from characterizing them broadly as unreliable and biased; for instance, I would certainly like to know in what ways Penton's balanced and judicious history is "ideologically-driven" and "distorted", especially his history was written in part as a critique of the official Watchtower history which omits many embarrassing facts and distorts their own past to support the organization's claimed authority. While she says "I have read articles and books by former members" (p. 162), she betrays no specific knowledge of them (Beckford is a sociologist, not a former member), and I would suspect she would have to say "I have read all the literature on this subject" in order to publish in an academic journal. On the other hand, she does recommend the works of Richard Singelenberg and James Beckford, which do have some interesting critiques of the Watchtower Society. She also recommends the books by Firpo Carr. In her discussion of the literature of "former members", she also gives a lengthy quote from sociologist Bryan R. Wilson which basically paints "apostates" as unreliable blamers:

    "The disaffected and the apostate are in particular informants whose evidence has to be used with circumspection. The apostate is generally in need of self-justification. He seeks to reconstruct his own past, to excuse his former affiliations, and to blame those who were formerly his closest associates. Not uncommonly the apostate learns to rehearse his 'atrocity story' to explain how, by manipulation, trickery, coercion, or deceit, he was induced to join or to remain within an organization that he now forswears and condemns. Apostates, sensationalized by the press, have sometimes sought to make a profit from accounts of their experiences in stories sold to newspapers or produced as books (sometimes written by 'ghost' writers)." (cited on p. 168).

    What is interesting is that Wah uses this quote while drawing a comparison between JWs and how former members of The Way International criticize that organization. I think she may be onto something in that respect!

  • sf

    Worth the sifting:


    FindArticles in Journal of Church and State: June 2001
    Articles in June 2001 issue of Journal of Church and State ... by Wah, Carolyn R.
    Toward a Jewish (M)Orality: Speaking of a Postmodern Jewish Ethics. ...
    www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb3244/is_200106 - 17k - Cached - Similar pages

    FindArticles in Journal of Church and State: September 2003
    Articles in September 2003 issue of Journal of Church and State ... by Wah,
    Carolyn R. Forgotten Features of the Founding: The Recovery of Religious Themes ...
    www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb3244/is_200309 - 15k - Cached - Similar pages
    [ More results from www.findarticles.com ]

    Are All Creationists Liars?
    ... letter by attorney Carolyn Wah for a brief that she produced in support of
    Froilan ... “Why Strict Churches are Strong.” American Journal of Sociology, ...
    www.rae.org/besier.html - 43k - Cached - Similar pages

    The Protection of Religious Minorities
    Two Models of the Church-State Relations from the Legal and Social Perspective of
    ... CAROLYN WAH, Presenter Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York ...
    www3.uj.edu.pl/confer/columbia98/program.html - 23k - Cached - Similar pages

    The Protection of Religious Minorities
    His recent publications include “Church-State Relations in the Post-Communist Era:
    ... Carolyn Wah (Patterson, New York is Assistant General Counsel for the ...
    www3.uj.edu.pl/confer/columbia98/bios.html - 42k - Cached - Similar pages

    Rutgers Journal of Law and Religion - Volume 2
    Carolyn R. Wah, A. 2.2.4, Atheism and the Religious Liberty Protection Act: A
    ... 2.2.5, Federalism and Religious Liberty: Were Church and State Meant to be ...
    www-camlaw.rutgers.edu/ publications/law-religion/JVol2.htm - 14k - Cached - Similar pages

    [DOC] Review of Religious Research
    File Format: Microsoft Word 6 - View as HTML
    Religious Priorities and Attitudes Toward Church and State ... Carolyn R.
    Wah Jehovah's Witnesses and Chikl Custody Cases in the United States, ...
    rra.hartsem.edu/RRR%20Vol.%2042%20No.%201-4.doc - Similar pages

    Bibliography Part 2: Articles in Edited Volumes and Scientific ...
    Journal of Church and State 37(4)919-921. Idem (1996a) ... Journal of Contemporary
    Religion, 12(2)133-156. Wah, Carolyn R. (1992) ...
    www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/biblio2.htm - 41k - Cached - Similar pages

    Russell, Charles Taze on Encyclopedia.com
    Publication: Journal of Church and State; Author: Wah, Carolyn R. ; Source:
    MAGAZINES. Launt Thompson, New York sculptor. Date: 11/01/2002 ...
    www.encyclopedia.com/html/R/RusslC1T1.asp - 34k - Cached - Similar pages

    Wagner, William - Wah, Clarence
    Index of people with the name Wagner, William - Wah, Clarence. ... Wagnon, Bill,
    Davis Stake of the LDS Church. Wagnon, Bill, State Board of Education ...
    www.zoominfo.com/Directory/default.asp?page_id=9315 - 136k - Cached - Similar pages

    Happy trails!


  • sf


    Carolyn Wah, Brooklyn, for respondent. Doris McCann, New York City, law guardian. BRUCE M. KAPLAN, Judge: How to reconcile a custodial parent's right to ...
    jehovah.to/gen/legal/custody/sel.htm - 32k - Cached - Similar pages

    This is a portion of the cached page:

    S.E.L. v. J.W.W.

    S.E.L. v. J.W.W.
    541 N.Y.S.2d 675
    March 16, 1989.

    Family Court, New York County, New York.
    In the Matter of S.E.L., Petitioner,
    J.W.W., Respondent.
    March 16, 1989.

    Upon cross petitions asserting custody and visitation of parties' daughter, the Family Court, New York County, Kaplan, J., held that no limitation would be placed on noncustodial parent's right to practice his religion when child visited him except to extent necessary to prevent any harm to child.

    Order in accordance with opinion.

    **676 *455 John A. Pannone, Brooklyn, for petitioner.

    Carolyn Wah, Brooklyn, for respondent.

    Doris McCann, New York City, law guardian.

    BRUCE M. KAPLAN, Judge:

    How to reconcile a custodial parent's right to determine her child's religious upbringing with the non-custodial parent's right to free exercise of religion when the child is visiting with him, is the task confronting the Court in these cross petitions for visitation and custody. Soraya Esteban, now Soraya Esteban Lebovich (S.E.L.) was divorced from James Willson (J.W.), in March 1987. Divorce did not attenuate *456 their acrimonious relationship and she soon initiated litigation in Family Court with respect to J.W.'s visitation with their daughter Natalie. In November, 1987, J.W. cross petitioned for custody.

    Numerous attempts were made to resolve the issue by Judge Gallet. The ultimate sticking point was the extent to which J.W. could involve Natalie with Jehovah's Witness doctrine, religious services, activities and teachings.

    J.W.'s petition for custody is denied. Accordingly, custody of Natalie, which was granted to S.E.L. in the judgment of divorce, will remain with her.

    J.W.'s petition for modification of custody, brought less than a year had elapsed since the judgment of divorce, is a thinly disguised ploy to obtain leverage with respect to his demands for visitation. Since his petition is utterly lacking in merit it is dismissed.

    We next turn to a consideration of not only the amount of visitation that should be awarded J.W., but also what restrictions, if any, should be placed upon his ability to expose his daughter to his religion.

    We shall do so by focusing on the following issues: 1) What are the rights and responsibilities of the custodial parent with respect to a child's religious training? 2) To what extent are those rights and responsibilities abridged by a non-custodial parent's First Amendment right to the free exercise of his or her religion when enjoying visitation with his or her child?

    The Court will attempt to resolve these salutary, and ofttimes conflicting objectives in the context of the best interests of the child.

    A Custodial Parent Has The Right To Determine The Child's Religious Upbringing And Training.

    [open link above to finish page]


  • yaddayadda

    Is that really her email address in the first post, that she can be reached at world headquarters of JWs?

    I wonder if Ted Jaracz' email address is [email protected] ?.

    How about bombarding them hehehe.

  • AuldSoul

    I bet his is theojaracz...he is, after all, the Theo in Theocracy. Rule by Theo.


  • stillajwexelder


  • Ticker
    Is that really her email address in the first post, that she can be reached at world headquarters of JWs?

    Just what I was wondering. lol It probably is but im sure nothing would phase her if she can read documented Watchtower corp. lies and still stand in its corner.


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