A few questions about Jesus' birth for you active JW's

by Honesty 2 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    1. How is the Governing Body like the Jewish religious leaders at Jesus' birth when the wise men from the east told them they had come to worship Jesus?

    Matt 2:1-11 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of King Herod , wise men from the east arrived unexpectedly in Jerusalem, saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.” When King Herod heard this, he was deeply disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him. So he assembled all the chief priests and scribes of the people and asked them where the Messiah would be born.

    “In Bethlehem of Judea,” they told him, “because this is what was written by the prophet:

    And you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,

    are by no means least among the leaders of Judah:

    because out of you will come a leader

    who will shepherd My people Israel. ”

    Then Herod secretly summoned the wise men and asked them the exact time the star appeared.

    He sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the child. When you find Him, report back to me so that I too can go and worship Him.” After hearing the king, they went on their way. And there it was—the star they had seen in the east! It led them until it came and stopped above the place where the child was. When they saw the star, they were overjoyed beyond measure. Entering the house, they saw the child with Mary His mother, and falling to thier knees, they worshiped Him. Then they opened their treasures and presented Him with gifts: gold, frankincense, and myrrh.

    3. Did the star lead the wise men to Jerusalem and Herod as the Live Forever book claims? Read the account in Matthew chapter 2

    4. Did Joseph and Mary have very much money or material posessions? Think and read about Jewish Law regarding birth and purification:

    Lev 12:1-4 The Lord spoke to Moses: “Tell the Israelites: When a woman becomes pregnant and gives birth to a male child, she will be unclean seven days, as she is during the days of her menstrual impurity. The flesh of his foreskin must be circumcised on the eighth day. She will continue in purification from her bleeding for 33 days. She must not touch any holy thing or go into the sanctuary until completing her days of purification.

    Lev 12:8 But if she doesn’t have sufficient means for a sheep, she may take two turtledoves or two young pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering. Then the priest will make atonement on her behalf, and she will be clean.”

    Luke 2:21-24 When the eight days were completed for His circumcision, He was named JESUS—the name given by the angel before He was conceived. And when the days of their purification according to the law of Moses were finished, they brought Him up to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord (just as it is written in the law of the Lord: Every firstborn male will be dedicated to the Lord ) and to offer a sacrifice (according to what is stated in the law of the Lord: a pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons

    5. How were Joseph and Mary able to finance their trip to and from Egypt which involved many months or even a couple of years if they were so poor they couldn't provide a sheep as a purification sacrifice?

    For some reason I never received any answers from the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society when they were asked the same questions.

    Is there any active Jehovah's Witness that is willing to respond?

  • schne_belly
    schne_belly

    Honesty,

    For question 1 - Did the "governing body" state that they are like the Jewish religious leaders of the day? or am I reading your question wrong?

    Question 3 - Hmmm. Looks like it was a prophecy that guided them to the city, and then the King to where Jesus was?

    Question 4 & 5 - I give up. Why did they only sacrifice the pigeons?

    Thanks for your help. I'm always looking to "stump" a JW with logic.....

  • Honesty
    Honesty



    1. How is the Governing Body like the Jewish religious leaders at Jesus' birth when the wise men from the east told them they had come to worship Jesus?

    Answer: The wise men were seeking the Messiah in order to worship Him while the Jewish religious leaders were deeply disturbed at His coming. The wise men went to worship Jesus. There is no record that the Jewish religious leaders also went to worship Him. The Governing Body has been deeply disturbed concerning Jesus' coming as evidenced by their constantly changing doctrines regarding the 'generation'. The Governing Body refuse to worship Jesus just as the religious leaders of His day refused to worship Him.





    2. Did the star lead the wise men to Jerusalem and Herod as the Live Forever book claims? Read the account in Matthew chapter 2

    Matt 2:1-2 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of King Herod , wise men from the east arrived unexpectedly in Jerusalem, saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.”

    Answer: Notice the wise men saw the star while they were in the east. They were from eastern parts and if the star had been east of them they would have headed off in the direction of India and not towards Jerusalem which was west of them. Since Jerusalem was the capitol of Israel they went there first to inquire of the new born King. Only after the wise men left Jerusalem did the star appear again.



    3. Did Joseph and Mary have very much money or material posessions? Think and read about Jewish Law regarding birth and purification:






    Answer: Lev 12:8 But if she doesn’t have sufficient means for a sheep, she may take two turtledoves or two young pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering. Then the priest will make atonement on her behalf, and she will be clean.”



    Luke 2:21-24 When the eight days were completed for His circumcision, He was named JESUS—the name given by the angel before He was conceived. And when the days of their purification according to the law of Moses were finished, they brought Him up to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord (just as it is written in the law of the Lord: Every firstborn male will be dedicated to the Lord ) and to offer a sacrifice (according to what is stated in the law of the Lord: a pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons

    Joseph and Mary were so poor that they only could afford the minimum required sacrificial offering.



    4. How were Joseph and Mary able to finance their trip to and from Egypt which involved many months or even a couple of years if they were so poor they couldn't provide a sheep as a purification sacrifice?

    Answer: Remember the wise men's gifts. Gold, frankincense and myrrh were very expensive and could be sold very easily on the open market.
    A Jew would never have found work in Egypt due to the history between the Jews and Egyptians . Archelaus succeeded his father, Herod in 4 B.C. after Herod's death. Secular and biblical history places the birth of Jesus around 6 B.C. Joseph, Mary and Jesus were in Egypt for a minimum of at least a year's time. They had to be self-sufficient in order to survive the trip to and from Egypt and also while they were in hiding there. The wise men's gifts enabled them to flee from Herod.

    So, who were these wise men, how did they know about the King of the Jews and why in the world would they bring gifts and travel for months to worship Him?

    I would suggest the dub take a very close look at Genesis 25: 1-6.

    Gen 25:1-6 Now Abraham took another wife, whose name was Keturah, and she bore him Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah. Jokshan fathered Sheba and Dedan. Dedan’s sons were the Asshurim, Letushim, and Leummim. And Midian’s sons were Ephah, Epher, Hanoch, Abida, and Eldaah. All these were sons of Keturah. Abraham gave everything he owned to Isaac. And Abraham gave gifts to the sons of his concubines, but while he was still alive he sent them eastward, away from his son Isaac, to the land of the East.

    Try it out on a dub and watch their reaction.






Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit