With reference to the Cocoon thread...

by Confession 3 Replies latest jw friends

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  Confession

  
  For some reason I'm unable to reply to the last few messages in a former thread.

  It's clear a few people disagree with me, therefore I'm compelled to reconsider. It seems there are at least a few issues being discussed here. 1) Whether Brenda violated the terms of membership in this forum. 2) Whether providing printed copies of ex-JW material is an unwise decision, as opposed to doing so online. 3) Whether Brenda is a 'vulture, profiting from others' pain and anguish.'

  1. No question that we're not supposed to "advertise any goods or services." Point taken. Question: Is it okay merely to provide a link to ones website, which may offer free content--as well as material for purchase? Is it really a violation if the stories requested are, in fact, available for free on her site--but there merely exists a charge for the printed version?

  2. Perhaps providing the newsletter in a print format isn't the most economical way to proceed. But (and please correct me if I'm wrong) isn't it true that this content is provided free on the website? Isn't there only a charge if someone wishes to request a printed copy or subscription to those printed copies? She e-mailed me her newsletter free of charge for one year--and it's presently being offered as a free download on her site. Again, only if you want the printed brochure is there a charge, no? While offering the material in print may not seem necessary, I'll admit sometimes I like to have a hard copy--just as I enjoy the FreeMinds Journal I get from Randy Watters (for which there is also a modest fee.)

  3. The degree of irritation I'm seeing to this is difficult to comprehend. Doesn't it make more sense to inform the person who may be going about this improperly what the terms of use for this site are--and make her aware of your issues of concern--rather than branding her a "vulture," making her out to be an evil person "whose primary interest is making some money by taking advantage of others' misfortune and pain?"

  Certainly asking her not to solicit for stories on JWD is called for. Beyond that? She is providing this content free on her website. The stories are free. The newsletter is free. If you want to purchase the printed version you pay 3 bucks.

  How is this any different than Randy's freeminds site? I too respect Randy a great deal. He has committed his life (at least in part) to helping people come out of the Watchtower religion. He too provides lots of free content on his site--and some materials that people may purchase. Do people here actually begrudge him this?
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  Lady Lee

  First of all you can't post on the htread because it was locked. The reason it was locked was posted at the end of the thread

  Now on to your other comments

  1. No question that we're not supposed to "advertise any goods or services." Point taken. Question: Is it okay merely to provide a link to ones website, which may offer free content--as well as material for purchase? Is it really a violation if the stories requested are, in fact, available for free on her site--but there merely exists a charge for the printed version?

  Other people provide links to their websites. And even websites that sell their books with their stories in them. The biggest difference I see is that the they are a regular part of the forum. They contribute and participate. They are not only here to advertize their website where they sell information. Looking into her history will give you an idea how little a part of this community she is.

  If the stories are free on her site why not just print them out on your own computer instead of buying them from her? I just went to her site.

  2. Perhaps providing the newsletter in a print format isn't the most economical way to proceed. But (and please correct me if I'm wrong) isn't it true that this content is provided free on the website? Isn't there only a charge if someone wishes to request a printed copy or subscription to those printed copies? She e-mailed me her newsletter free of charge for one year--and it's presently being offered as a free download on her site. Again, only if you want the printed brochure is there a charge, no? While offering the material in print may not seem necessary, I'll admit sometimes I like to have a hard copy--just as I enjoy the FreeMinds Journal I get from Randy Watters (for which there is also a modest fee.)

  I just went to her site. There is a link for 1 free copy of the newsletter. All the others must be bought. She may have given you free copies before but from what I saw that isn't the deal now. And the issue of violation of the Terms of use for this site.

  3. The degree of irritation I'm seeing to this is difficult to comprehend. Doesn't it make more sense to inform the person who may be going about this improperly what the terms of use for this site are--and make her aware of your issues of concern--rather than branding her a "vulture," making her out to be an evil person "whose primary interest is making some money by taking advantage of others' misfortune and pain?"

  "Evil" Vulture" those are not terms I would use but I just see a person trying to make some money off the pain of others, who by the way can get the same info on the net for free and print it out if they want the hard copy. Her posts are still there. We have not removed them. If anyone really wants to contact her they can check her profile and get her webpage.

  Certainly asking her not to solicit for stories on JWD is called for. Beyond that? She is providing this content free on her website. The stories are free. The newsletter is free. If you want to purchase the printed version you pay 3 bucks.

  You better check this again and if you find any other link to the free newsletters let me know.

  How is this any different than Randy's freeminds site? I too respect Randy a great deal. He has committed his life (at least in part) to helping people come out of the Watchtower religion. He too provides lots of free content on his site--and some materials that people may purchase. Do people here actually begrudge him this?

  First Randy has been a part of this forum for a long long time. He does not come here simply to sell things from his site. He is a regular contributor. Also when Randy has used a story of mine for his newsletters he has always asked permission first. And yes he provides a lot of informatiuon on his site. It is a gold mind of information. It's a totally different thing if a person comes here with one purpose only - to sell their wares.

  Most discussion boards have a similar clause in their terms of use. I used to be a moderator for the old Sympatico discussion boards. We didn't even warn the spammers. Just deleted them. They agreed to the terms of use and then ignored them. Brenda Lee is getting off easy. She has been doing this since Feb. Her post is there and if any one wants they can get to her site.
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  Cocoon

  Wow, I had no idea I have created such a controversy! I'm very sorry that you all feel so strongly but I feel I need to explain some things. One of the reasons I started my newsletter is because I wanted to provide a more gentler, kinder way to communicate with people. So many people had conveyed to me that they, too, had been harshly treated on discussion forums and just wanted to find a healthy way to heal. My first few experiences on a discussion forum (not sure if it was this one or another one) were so very negative that I almost didn't come back. I was called names, insulted, and my words were twisted, even though I was trying to be respectful of others. In a word, I was judged (and it feels that way now). Unfortunately, JWs are masters of judging everyone and this is one residual trait we probably all need to work on improving. (I can relate to this because I was very cynical and negative when I first came out of the JWs. It took me years to learn to trust people, expect the best in people, and not drive away those who tried to befriend me.) Over the last year, the comments that I have received from readers of my newsletter have been extremely supportive and grateful. I know you don't all know me very well, but like Randy, I spend countless hours on the computer everyday talking to people, offering support, mailing them materials (free of charge), and arranging Meetups for ex-JWs. I can't tell you how many hours I have spent talking to people who wanted to kill themselves or who had child custody issues and needed some help or who felt extremely depressed. I would suspect that most, if not all of my critics on here have never even read my newsletter or talked to me 1:1. I assure you, my intention is honorable. It's hard to convey this though when people go on the offensive. I feel like I've encountered a lynch mob. Yet, I want you to understand that I'm not saying this to incite you further. I'm saying this because I want you to know the real me. As for why I haven't been on here much and have only recently gotten on: For the last year, I have been very, very heavily involved in getting the newsletter off the ground and emailing it out to people. Last year I spent several days of my life trying to e-mail it to people (always free of charge). The whole process became so time-consuming that I decided to set up a website so people could read the current month's issue online (free of charge). As I said before, I do offer back issues in hard copy format--just to help offset the costs of maintaining the website. (But so far only two people have purchased back issues because nearly everyone has already read it from when I sent it to them before! So that $3,000/month figure that someone threw out is really pie in the sky! Before you condemn me, why don't you take the time to get to know me? I'm sorry if I have offended anyone or violated any rules. I wasn't even aware I had but I am a fast learner. Yes, I am new to this and I'm not very internet saavy, but was hoping to become involved in more online discussions. But I don't want to be beaten up everytime I get on here. Before I type anything to anyone, I always ask myself if I could say that to them face-to-face in a loving, respectful manner. If I can't, I don't say it. That's all I ask of you. Can we start over? Brenda Lee, author, "Out of the Cocoon"
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  Lady Lee

  Brenda

  I'm sorry if I have offended anyone or violated any rules. I wasn't even aware I had but I am a fast learner. Yes, I am new to this and I'm not very internet saavy, but was hoping to become involved in more online discussions. But I don't want to be beaten up everytime I get on here. Before I type anything to anyone, I always ask myself if I could say that to them face-to-face in a loving, respectful manner. If I can't, I don't say it. That's all I ask of you.

  You have been registered on this site since February. You had to agree to the terms of use when you signed on. In all those months you have never contributed to even one thread other than your own trying to get people to buy your book or newsletter. That constitutes spamming. Oops I guess this is the first time you have come out of your own threads.

  You request that we get to know you. But by only posting threads to sell your book and newsletter you have provided nothing more than advertisements. We know nothing else about you other than what is on your site. You contribute nothing here. How may I ask should we get to know you?

  We have not deleted you. Your posts are all still there for anyone to see. If people choose to go visit your web site they are free to do so.

  You are still welcome to use the board and perhaps find out more about us and we might actually find out more about you.

  But no more spamming

  Lee