Who was Rachel of Ramah?

by truthseeker 8 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • truthseeker
    truthseeker

    When Herod saw that he was outwitted by the astrologers, who were supposed to reveal to Herod the whereabouts of Jesus, he ordered that all males 2 and under in Bethlehem and its districts be killed.

    Matthew 2:17 says "Then that was fulfilled which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet, saying: "A voice was heard in Ramah, weeping and much wailing: it was Rachel weeping for her children, and she was unwilling to take comfort, because they are no more."

    A look at Jeremiah 31:15, 16 read as follows: "This is what Jehovah has said, 'In Ramah a voice is being heard, lamentation and much weeping; Rachel weeping over her sons. She has refused to be comforted over her sons, because they are no more. 16 This is what Jehovah has said: "'Hold back your voice from weeping, and your eyes from tears, for there exists a reward for your activity,' is the utterance of Jehovah, 'and they will certainly return from the land of the enemy."

    The account of Herod killing boys under two is almost parallel to Pharaoh killing the Hebrew babies.

    These are the questions I have:

    1) Who is Rachel or Ramah? Why her? What is special about her that she is mentioned from all the other grieving mothers who lost their infants?

    2) Reading the context of Jeremiah 31, the summary at the top of the NWT says "Rachel weeps" but the text says nothing about how her sons died.

    3) There seems to be no link with Jeremiah 31:15 and Matthew 3:17, 18. When reading the scipture at Matthew, it appears as if the writer "saw" a parallel with the scripture at Jeremiah.

    4) If this account is considered the fulfillment of prophecy, how is it that Mark, Luke and John have not included the account in their gospels?

  • truthseeker
    truthseeker

    Some more info on Rachel and Ramah...

    Ramah

    Ramah, or Rama, was a city located about 5 miles north of Jerusalem (see Bible Places). As such, it was involved, or affected, by numerous events of Bible History that took place in Jerusalem, and at least one major event that happened in Bethlehem of Judah (see The Two Bethlehems), which is located to the south of Jerusalem.

    Ramah of Benjamin

    Israelite Tribal Lands After the Israelites entered their physical Promised Land (see Physical and Spiritual Israel) in the time of Joshua, Ramah was among a number of cities that were located in the allotted territory of Benjamin:

    "Now the cities of the tribe of the children of Benjamin according to their families were Jericho, and Bethhoglah, and the valley of Keziz ... Gibeon, and Ramah, and Beeroth" (Joshua 18:21,25 KJV)

    During The Judges era, Deborah lived near Ramah:

    "And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment." (Judges 4:4-5 KJV)

    During one of the civil wars (see Jews At War With Israel and The Civil War) fought among the people of Israel, Ramah was located in the battle zone between Israel and Judah:

    "And there was war between Asa and Baasha king of Israel all their days. And Baasha king of Israel went up against Judah, and built Ramah, that he might not suffer any to go out or come in to Asa king of Judah." (1 Kings 15:16-17 KJV) (see Kings of Israel and Judah and Israelite Dynasties)

    In the time after the Assyrians (see Ancient Empires - Assyria) conquered the northern kingdom of Israel (see also The Galilee Captivity) and were then beginning to set their sights on the southern kingdom of Judah, The Lord declared through Isaiah that the people of the towns of the kingdom of Judah (which was composed of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, and some Levites), including Ramah, need not worry - He would stop the Assyrians:

    "Therefore thus saith The Lord God of hosts, O My people that dwellest in Zion [see also Who, What or Where Is Zion?], be not afraid of the Assyrian ... And it shall come to pass in that day, that his burden shall be taken away from off thy shoulder, and his yoke from off thy neck, and the yoke shall be destroyed because of the anointing. He is come to Aiath, he is passed to Migron; at Michmash he hath laid up his carriages: They are gone over the passage: they have taken up their lodging at Geba; Ramah is afraid; Gibeah of Saul is fled." (Isaiah 10:24,27-29 KJV)

    Although delivered from the Assyrians, the people of Judah (Judah and Benjamin) in later years went corrupt anyway, just as the northern kingdom of Israel did. The Lord then had the Babylonians (see Ancient Empires - Babylon) destroy Judah (see Why Babylon?). The Babylonians apparently had a prison camp at Ramah where the people of Judah were held before being shipped into exile. Among them, for a time, was the prophet Jeremiah (see also Baruch)

    "The word that came to Jeremiah from The Lord, after that Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard had let him go from Ramah, when he had taken him being bound in chains among all that were carried away captive of Jerusalem and Judah, which were carried away captive unto Babylon." (Jeremiah 40:1 KJV)

    Rachel was the mother of Benjamin (Benjamin is the only son of Jacob/Israel who was born in the land of Israel; all the others were born during the time that Jacob lived with Laban - see Jacob and Laban). She died giving birth to him, her tomb (a photo of which is provided in the Rachel study) is located near Bethlehem. Ramah was within the territory allotted to Benjamin. A prophecy made in the time of Jeremiah involving Rachel and Ramah was not fulfilled until centuries later (for when, see the Fact Finder question below)

    "Thus saith The Lord; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not." (Jeremiah 31:15 KJV)
  • truthseeker
    truthseeker

    Interesting enough, I couldn't find an account of Rachel losing her sons. She did lose her life, however, in childbirth as indicated below at Genesis 35:16-20

    16 And they journeyed from Bethel; and there was but a little way to come to Ephrath: and Rachel travailed, and she had hard labour.

    17 And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also.

    18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.

    19 And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem.

    20 And Jacob set a pillar upon her grave: that is the pillar of Rachel's grave unto this day.

    I thought at first Rachel was weeping over Benjamin, when his brothers left him for dead down a well, but this couldn't be the case as Rachel died in childbirth with Benjamin.

  • truthseeker
    truthseeker

    It seems the accounts at Jeremiah, Matthew and Genesis are a peculiar patchwork of "prophecy".

    One person seems to have an answer for this account, but it looks like he is reading too much into the prophecy...

    http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/sg2186.htm

    Matthew, who alone refers to this event, says that it occurred to fulfill prophecy. It fits his theme of fulfilled prophecy at the birth of Christ to establish that He was the King. Let's examine the circumstances under which this prophecy was uttered:

    1. THE SETTING

    We've already learned in the first two prophecies that sometimes New Testament writers really surprise us by the way they use the Old Testament. Sometimes we just don't understand that kind of usage and we have to broaden our thinking a little, so I want you to see what happens here. The prophecy about Ramah is recorded in Jeremiah 31:15, and what's interesting about it is that it doesn't appear here to be a prophecy. But it is a prophecy because Matthew said it was, not because it's inherent in this text.

    a. Weeping for Rejection

    Jeremiah 31:15 says, "Thus saith the LORD, A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rachel, weeping for her children, refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not." The prophesying of Jeremiah was perhaps the most tragic prophesying of all in Israel's history, because he uttered the doom of a dying nation. His prophesying was a swan song, as it were, that was uttered with tears, because he knew that nobody would listen or repent and that the captivity was really inevitable.

    Later on, there came One greater than Jeremiah who again uttered the same doom for that nation with tears. One day He sat over Jerusalem and said, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them who are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" (Mt. 23:37). And the Bible tells us that Jesus wept over the city (Lk. 19:41). Likewise, Jeremiah sat in view of a people that were doomed, and wept.

    b. Hoping for Redemption

    But even in Jeremiah's prophecy there is great hope, believe it or not. In the heart of this book, there are four chapters (Jer. 30-33) that are filled with hope, joy, and comfort. Though Jeremiah was prophesying the doom of the Babylonian captivity, which came not long after and took them all away, he also spoke of great comfort and great hope in chapters 30 to 33. And notice that the statement about the weeping and lamentation concerning the children is located right in the middle of the section filled with hope, comfort, and joy. Why? Because even though there was weeping and lamentation, these chapters looked ahead to the coming Messiah, who would set things right. In fact, the very next verses in Jeremiah 31 hint at Israel's divine restoration: "Thus saith the LORD, Restrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears; for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD, and they shall come again from the land of the enemy. And there is hope in thine end, saith the LORD, that thy children shall come again to their own border" (vv. 16-17). In other words, God said to Jeremiah, "It's a sad day and there's doom ahead, so you have a right to weep. But refrain from weeping any longer because I will redeem them back." And He did so, didn't He, seventy years later.

    The same parallel is seen in the use of the prophecy by Matthew. There was Rachel weeping for her children because of the tragedy and destruction that had come on the nation, which had rejected its Messiah. But at the same time, there was hope because even then there was a remnant, and one day, according to Romans 11, God would regather that whole nation, and they would finally recognize their Messiah. Zechariah said, "...and they shall look upon Me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourneth for his only son..." (12:10b). There's going to be salvation again in the nation of Israel, as Paul clearly said: "And so all Israel shall be saved..." (Rom. 11:26a). You can see then, that there's a general parallel: Jeremiah spoke about doom, and the people of Israel wept about that doom, but Jeremiah said, "Don't keep weeping because things will turn around and there will be salvation." The same thing was true of Christ: When He came there was weeping because His rejection brought doom. But there was comfort in that He would be the Savior of Israel. That's the parallel. There was weeping when the captivity came and the people were scattered, and there was weeping when the deaths in Bethlehem occurred. Those deaths were a sign of the hateful, vengeful rejection of Herod, as well as the indifferent rejection of the chief priests and the scribes and the people...a sign which showed that there was going to be a price to pay. But on the other hand, they were a sign that just as there should have been hope in the hearts of the mothers of Jeremiah's time, there should have been hope in the hearts of the mothers of Jesus' time, because there was going to be a turnabout. There was still hope in a salvation yet to be fulfilled.

    2. THE SPECIFICS

    a. Ramah

    Ramah was a village five miles north of Jerusalem, and was located right on the borderline between the Northern and the Southern Kingdoms in Israel, as indicated in 1 Kings 15:17. It served as the place where foreign conquerors ordered the defeated Israelites to be assembled for deportation to faraway places. Consequently, because of its location, Ramah became symbolic of the North and the South, as the only place where Israel came together. And it was always associated with weeping, because it was there that the deportations into captivity took place.

    b. Rachel

    By referring to Rachel, Jeremiah was drawing a picture. Rather than Rachel literally going to Ramah and weeping, she was merely used as a symbol of the mothers of Israel in much the same way that Ramah was a symbol of the deportation of the sons and daughters of Israel. The mothers of Israel were crying because they saw their children taken away. That's the idea. Furthermore, it is most interesting that Rachel was Jacob's most cherished wife, who had given birth to Joseph, the father of Ephraim and Manasseh. Those two tribes came to represent the Northern Kingdom, which, incidentally, was often called Ephraim. But later on, Rachel also bore Benjamin, who became identified with the Southern Kingdom. In this light, Jeremiah figuratively saw Rachel as alive, standing at Ramah, and weeping as the Northern Kingdom was deported by Assyria and the Southern Kingdom was deported by Babylon into captivity. Because both of those tribes came from the loins of Rachel, Rachel is depicted as weeping as she sees both sides of her family taken into captivity. She mourned so bitterly, being first deprived of Ephraim (Israel) and then of Benjamin (Judah), because it was she who cried in desperation, "...Give me children, or else I die" (Gen. 30:1b). And now, in Jeremiah's prophecy, she stands as if she were in the middle of those two nations and sees them both taken into different captivities. Israel was weeping because of the captivity of its children. When the population of the land was carried away it seemed as if God had deserted His people. But no sooner had Jeremiah presented the picture of Rachel weeping, than he added, "Stop your weeping, because there is coming a restoration. They will come back." And then over in chapter 33 he spoke about the righteous Branch, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will be the agent to bring them back. In the end the sorrow will be turned to joy in the salvation of the remnant.

    3. THE SIGNIFICANCE

    Matthew shows us that the Holy Spirit also intended this imagery to reveal the time of the birth of Christ. As Matthew records the slaughter of Bethlehem's babies, it's as if he sees Rachel beginning to weep all over again for her children as the mother of Israel. Some see this prophetically fulfilled in...

    1. AN HISTORICAL SENSE

    Rachel is identified with Bethlehem by some, because her tomb is near the town. And some Bible commentators also tell us that the word Ramah means "height," so that any place in Israel that was a height could be identified as Ramah. And because Bethlehem is a height, some believe that in those days, it was referred to as Ramah. But I believe that the figure of Rachel at Ramah best pictures what would happen again when the Messiah came.

    2. A SPIRITUAL SENSE

    Rachel wept again, but this time not because the foreign powers of Babylon or Assyria had destroyed her people, but because Herod had, the king of Israel himself.

  • truthseeker
    truthseeker

    An interesting comment from the article above...

    There was Rachel weeping for her children because of the tragedy and destruction that had come on the nation, which had rejected its Messiah.

    How could "Rachel" weep for her children in the sense of the Messiah being rejected, when Jesus was just a baby? It would make sense if this verse were placed after the death of Jesus, rather than the birth of Jesus.

    Try as I might, I cannot find any definitive, conclusive correlation between the three accounts of Rachel and Ramah.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    This is a good example of how alleged prophecies in the OT are often simply passages taken out of context by the gospel writers and given prophetic significance by them (or simply used to compose the narratives themselves without acknowledgment). I used the example of Matthew 2:17 the other day to explain why we should not deny the actual original meaning of a passage in its original context rather than simply adopt what a later writer (like a gospel writer) claims it means. When read it context, Jeremiah 31:15 is simply one of many statements in the book about the Babyonian devastation of Judah and the captivity...it only has messianic prophetic significance because a later writer wanted to invest it with that meaning. I mentioned this in connection to the "Seventy Weeks" oracle in Daniel 9, which a Christian wanted to exempt from its obvious contextual meaning (as referring to the events associated with Antiochus Epiphanes described in ch. 8 and ch. 11) and make it refer to the later Roman period....not on the basis of any internal or contextual reason, but because later gospel writers said so. Just as Jeremiah 31:15 actually means something else in context, so does Daniel 9.

  • Nate Merit
    Nate Merit

    Dear Leolaia

    Indeed. My hobby-horse point exactly. Thank you. Your word is given great credence here, as it should.

    3) There seems to be no link with Jeremiah 31:15 and Matthew 3:17, 18. When reading the scipture at Matthew, it appears as if the writer "saw" a parallel with the scripture at Jeremiah.


    Namaste,
    Nathan

  • ajie
    ajie

    cant it apply to the mothers of the tribe of benjamin represented by rachel,crying over all the kiddys being killed by herod

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    ajie....You need to read this passage in its context. It has nothing to do with Herod or Jesus...it is clearly about the depopulation of Judah by the Babylonians and the promised return after the Exile (as a "second Exodus" from slavery in Babylonia):

    "I build you once more; you shall be rebuilt, virgin of Israel. Adorned once more, and with your tambourines, you will go out dancing gaily. You will plant vineyards once more on the mountains of Samaria (the planters have done their planting, they will gather the fruit). Yes, a day will come when the watchmen shout on the mountains of Ephraim, 'Up! Let us go up to Zion, to Yahweh our God!' For Yahweh says this: Shout with joy for Jacob! Hail the chief of nations! Proclaim! Praise! Shout: 'Yahweh has saved his people, the remnant of Israel!' See, I will bring them back from the land of the North and gather them from the far ends of the earth" (Jeremiah 31:4-8).
    "I will change their mourning into gladness, comfort them, give them joy after their troubles, refresh my priests with rich food, and see my people have their fill of my good things, it is Yahweh who speaks. Thus speaks Yahweh: A voice is heard in Ramah, lamenting and weeping bitterly. It is Rachel weeping for her children, refusing to be comforted for her children, because they are no more. Yahweh says this: Stop your weeping, dry your eyes, your hardships will be redressed: they shall come back from the enemy country. There is hope for your descendents: your sons will come home to their own lands" (Jeremiah 31:13-17).
    "Set up signposts, raise landmarks, mark the road well, the way by which you went. Come home, virgin of Israel, come home to these towns of yours" (Jeremiah 31:21).

    The text is not saying that Rachel (= the ancestor mother of the tribes of Benjamin and Joseph) is weeping because some madman king Herod killed off all her descendents, or even all the male children of hers. It clearly implies that her children are "no more" not because they are all dead but because they are all in captivity in foreign lands...the next verse says that she can now stop weeping because her children are coming home from the enemy country. This is an entirely different concept than how the author of Matthew uses the verse. To call Jeremiah 31:15 a messianic prophecy is like calling Jeremiah 31:21 a prophecy of the resettlement of New Orleans after the recent flooding...

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit