Fruits of the Spirit

by Ticker 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Ticker
    Ticker



    I had a discussion today with a Witnesse and was directing her toword this site and the qoutes site. I was thinking though of how the Organization used to continually stress the developing of the fruitage of the spirit, I then was reading a book entitled "Leaving the Fold". An excellent book written by a Doctor who delves into the psychological aspects of cults and religions not necessarilly pointed at just JW's but all such groups. She discussed the fruits of the spirit and gifts of the spirit and it got me thinking.



    How can it make any sence for a JW according to the official societys teachings to ever develop the 'fruitage of the spirit' when they also teach that only the annointed recieve the holy spirit? How can the average witness ever hope to attain any fruitage or gift of the spirit according to their teachings if they are repeatedly told they are not of the covenent with Christ, and thus recieve no holy spirit? Does not one have to recieve the holy spirit to ever develop its qualities in ones self? This too me seems like another Watchtower twist on scriptures that leaves it confusing when it is molded to fit Watchtower doctrine. Does this not seem like a contridiction within their very teaching? Any thoughts appreciated and hope the questions are clear enough.



    Ticker

  • IP_SEC
    IP_SEC

    The tower says only the 144k are anointed with with HS. Holy Spirit can work on regular old dubs just as it did on pre-christian folkal. We are all created in the image of god and therefore already posses the qualities that Holy Spirit produces in greater abundance.

    Im going to be ill now... see I could go back today and not miss a beat

  • Ticker
    Ticker

    Thanks for that explanation IP Sec. I know just how you feel, it makes me sick too to see them twist what is actually their to make it serve their purpose.

    I still fail to buy the watchtowers explanation, it's faulty as we cannont be compared to the pre christian nation of Israel, which existed under the law covenent. All people from Christ death onward are no longer under law but rather under Christ, or the new covenent. So in my view I can not see how they logically could synchronize such thinking. They essentially have re-instituted the Law covenent back on the majority of its membership that Christ diminished with his sacrificial death. And all christians are supposed to be equal, yet they have elevated themselves in a two tier system. Its too bad people can't see this when they subject themselves to such false reasonings.

    Ticker

  • Low-Key Lysmith
    Low-Key Lysmith

    It's a pretty one sided theory anyway.

    How many JWs do you know that practice the true meanings of:

    Love-(yeah right, shunning, judging, and ruthless gossip are soooo loving)

    Joy-(most JWs I know are miserable, anxious, and fearful. My Elder dad has to take anti-depressants to keep him from killing himself).

    Peace- (How much turmoil is churned up within families of believers and non-believers?)

    Long suffering- (Give me a break.)

    Kindness- (Again, back to the shunning, judging, and gossip thing)

    Goodness- (Mmmmm Hmmmm. by their standards of course).

    Faith -(Okay, they got me on this one.)

    Mildness- (There is nothing mild about a group of people who work so hard to set themselves apart from the rest of the world.)

    Self control- (one word: Pedophilia).

  • Ticker
    Ticker

    Excellent summary Low Key. That about sums up how far off they are from the 'fruits of the spirit'.

    As for faith, I would have to question where their faith lies. In God and Christ or in a man run organization? From knowing the witness mindset and having oral debates with witnesses over this very subject, I can most certainly attest that their faith is misguided toword a central body of humans within a religion rather then rightly directed to Christ and his Father. Most witnesses I think fail to consciencly notice this fact but if one really looks they notice that the witness puts all his faith in the society rather then in their leader the Christ, a fact that even ones who have had minimal interaction with the witnesses could agree with.

    Ticker

  • in a new york bethel minute
    in a new york bethel minute
    How can it make any sence for a JW according to the official societys teachings to ever develop the 'fruitage of the spirit' when they also teach that only the annointed recieve the holy spirit?


    what i'd like to know is how something called a Holy Spirit, that has obviously Godly and, in turn, humanly qualities... is not a living creature. it's considered to be the ARM OF GOD... my arm doesn't feel love or faith or anything like that. and SINCE WHEN is a spirit non-living???

    bethel

  • Scully
    Scully

    Here is another good question: Why is it, that up until 1985, when someone got baptized as a JW, they could 'do God's will as he reveals it to you through the enlightening power of the holy spirit', but after 1985, the holy spirit is only mentioned in association with the "spirit-directed organization"?

    *** Watchtower 1966 August 1 p.465 Baptism Shows Faith ***

    Are you able to answer "Yes" to the two questions regularly propounded when individuals present themselves for Christian baptism?

    (1) Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?

    (2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?

    *** Watchtower 1970 May 15 p.309 Your Conscience Toward Jehovah ***

    20 Two questions which do search out the heart and mind of each candidate are: (1) Have you recognized yourself as a sinner and needing salvation from Jehovah God? And have you acknowledged that this salvation proceeds from him and through his ransomer, Christ Jesus? (2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for redemption have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to Jehovah God, to do his will henceforth as that will is revealed to you through Christ Jesus and through God's Word as his holy spirit makes it plain? Those who answer "yes" audibly to these two questions so that the other persons present may witness their affirmation of dedication may appropriately be baptized.

    *** Watchtower 1973 May 1 p.280 Baptizing Follows Discipling ***

    ...If you feel the same about serving Jehovah God and taking Christ's yoke upon you, we suggest that you consider the following two questions, which are asked of candidates for baptism:

    (1) Have you repented of your sins and turned around, recognizing yourself before Jehovah God as a condemned sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?

    (2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?

    *** Watchtower 1985 June 1 p.30 Subjecting Ourselves to Jehovah by Dedication ***

    Decision Based on Knowledge

    […]

    At the close of the convention baptism talk, the baptism candidates will be in position to answer with depth of understanding and heartfelt appreciation two simple questions that serve to confirm that they recognize the implications of following Christ's example. The first question is:

    On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

    The second is:

    Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?

    Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism.


    How can a person develop the fruitage of the spirit when it is not (apparently) in operation in them? Does the "spirit-directed organization" demonstrate the fruitage of the spirit?

    Or rather do they demonstrate the works of the flesh?

    19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication (NGO with the UN) , uncleanness (the pedophile paradise) , loose conduct, 20 idolatry (money, money, money!) , practice of spiritism (the forced rejection of Jesus' sacrifice by the Great Crowd at the observance of the Memorial) , enmities (those horrible Apostates™) , strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects (dividing families with DFing/DAing and shunning) , 21 envies, drunken bouts, revelries (rejoicing in the coming destruction of 99.9% of the world's population at Armageddon) , and things like these. As to these things I am forewarning YOU, the same way as I did forewarn YOU, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom.
    If the organization is bound up in the works of the flesh, can one honestly expect that its followers will have the ability to cultivate the fruitage of the spirit?
  • Ticker
    Ticker

    In a New York Bethel Minute- very excellent points to ponder and really makes one wonder and raises some valid evaluations as to what the Holy Sprit truly is. Thankyou for thoese thoughts.

    Yes Scully, I never knew they had thoese views let alone abandoned their earlier thoughts on the holy spirit. Sure shows how they have increasingly created a rift and division among thier own flock in creating two distinct classes of christians, another teaching that fails to have any validity according to scripture. Thank you for your post.

    Ticker

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