Romans 6:7 and the WT

by Honesty 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Honesty
    Honesty



    It is amazing how a scripture can be twisted interpreted when taken out of context.

    *** Rbi8 Romans 6:7 *** 7 For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin.

    *** it-1 599 Death *** And since physical death discharges one from any debts or obligations existing up to that time (Ro 6:7), a Christian’s being freed or liberated from sin (Ro 6:2, 11) and from the condemnation of the Mosaic Law (Ro 7:2-6) is also likened to death, such one having ‘died’ to his former situation and obligations. The one figuratively dying in such a way, of course, is still alive physically and is now free to follow Christ as a slave to righteousness.—Ro 6:18-20; Ga 5:1.

    *** it-1 603 Declare Righteous *** The apostle Paul states that the person who dies is “acquitted [form of di·kai·o'o] from his sin,” having paid the penalty of death.—Ro 6:7, 23.

    *** it-2 138 Judgment Day *** Basis for judgment. In describing what will take place on earth during the time of judgment, Revelation 20:12 says that the resurrected dead will then be “judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.” Those resurrected will not be judged on the basis of the works done in their former life, because the rule at Romans 6:7 says: “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”

    However, Jesus said that unwillingness to take note of his powerful works and repent or unresponsiveness to God’s message would make it hard for some to endure Judgment Day.—Mt 10:14, 15; 11:21-24.

    *** it-2 788 Resurrection *** Time of the earthly resurrection. We note that this judgment is placed in the Bible in the account of events occurring during Christ’s Thousand Year Reign with his associate kings and priests. These, the apostle Paul said, “will judge the world.” (1Co 6:2) “The great and the small,” persons from all walks of life, will be there, to be judged impartially. They are “judged out of those things written in the scrolls” that will be opened then. This could not mean the record of their past lives nor a set of rules that judges them on the basis of their past lives. For since “the wages sin pays is death,” these by their death have received the wages of their sin in the past. (Ro 6:7, 23) Now they are resurrected that they might demonstrate their attitude toward God and whether they wish to take hold of the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ that was given for all. (Mt 20:28; Joh 3:16) Though their past sins are not accounted to them, they need the ransom to lift them up to perfection. They must make their minds over from their former way of life and thought in harmony with God’s will and regulations for the earth and its population. Accordingly, “the scrolls” evidently set forth the will and law of God for them during that Judgment Day, their faith and their obedience to these things being the basis for judgment and for writing their names indelibly, at last, into “the scroll of life.”

    *** w97 5/15 7 Should You Believe in Reincarnation? *** Yes, man is to blame for much of his misery. Since the soul is not immortal, however, the law of ‘reaping what you sow’ cannot be used to connect human suffering to a karma—deeds of a supposed previous life. “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin,” states the Bible. (Romans 6:7, 23) Thus the fruitage of sin is not carried over to a life after death.

    *** w95 11/15 19 Stay in the "City of Refuge" and Live! *** 17 Must those resurrected during Jesus’ Thousand Year Reign enter the antitypical city of refuge and remain there until the death of the high priest? No, because by dying they paid the penalty for their sinfulness. (Romans 6:7; Hebrews 9:27) Nevertheless, the High Priest will help them to reach perfection. If they successfully pass the final test after the Millennium, God will also declare them righteous with a guarantee of eternal life on earth. Of course, failure to comply with God’s requirements will bring condemnatory judgment and destruction upon any humans who do not pass the final test as integrity keepers.

    *** w82 5/15 8-9 What Will Judgment Day Be Like? *** Contrary to popular opinion, Christ will not judge those who are resurrected on the basis of their past sins, many of which may have been committed in ignorance. The Bible explains that at death a person is set free or released from any sins he committed. It says: “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” (Romans 6:7) This means that when a person is resurrected he will be judged according to what he does during Judgment Day, not on the basis of what he did before he was resurrected.

    Now, let's examine it within the context of the passage and Romans 6:7 takes on an entirely different meaning that even the celebrated WT scholars can not deny:

    *** Rbi8 Romans 6:1-7 *** 6 Consequently, what shall we say? Shall we continue in sin, that undeserved kindness may abound? 2 Never may that happen! Seeing that we died with reference to sin, how shall we keep on living any longer in it? 3 Or do You not know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we were buried with him through our baptism into his death, in order that, just as Christ was raised up from the dead through the glory of the Father, we also should likewise walk in a newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall certainly also be [united with him in the likeness] of his resurrection; 6 because we know that our old personality was impaled with [him], that our sinful body might be made inactive, that we should no longer go on being slaves to sin. 7 For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin.

    8 Moreover, if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. 9 For we know that Christ, now that he has been raised up from the dead, dies no more; death is master over him no more. 10 For [the death] that he died, he died with reference to sin once for all time; but [the life] that he lives, he lives with reference to God. 11 Likewise also YOU : reckon yourselves to be dead indeed with reference to sin but living with reference to God by Christ Jesus.

    12 Therefore do not let sin continue to rule as king in YOUR mortal bodies that YOU should obey their desires. 13 Neither go on presenting YOUR members to sin as weapons of unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, also YOUR members to God as weapons of righteousness. 14 For sin must not be master over You , seeing that You are not under law but under undeserved kindness.

    Romans 6:1-14 (HCSB)

    1 What should we say then? Should we continue in sin in order that grace may multiply?

    2 Absolutely not! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

    3 Or are you unaware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

    4 Therefore we were buried with Him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in a new way of life.

    5 For if we have been joined with Him in the likeness of His death, we will certainly also be in the likeness of His resurrection.

    6 For we know that our old self was crucified with Him in order that sin’s dominion over the body may be abolished, so that we may no longer be enslaved to sin, 7 since a person who has died is freed from sin’s claims.

    8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him, 9 because we know that Christ, having been raised from the dead, no longer dies. Death no longer rules over Him.

    10 For in that He died, He died to sin once for all; but in that He lives, He lives to God.

    11 So, you too consider yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

    12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, so that you obey its desires.

    13 And do not offer any parts of it to sin as weapons for unrighteousness. But as those who are alive from the dead, offer yourselves to God, and all the parts of yourselves to God as weapons for righteousness.

    14 For sin will not rule over you, because you are not under law but under grace.

  • ButtLight
    ButtLight

    Well, I guess I should pray to get run over by a bus the day before armagedon then hey?

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    Honesty,

    Well we can forget about these texts then:

    Ro 4:25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.
    1Co 15:3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
    Ga 1:4 who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,
    1Jo 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
    1Jo 4:10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

    To teach that our own death acquits us of past sin somehow and convince millions of people of this is incredible. It makes the blood of Christ worthless. What kind of people are JW’s anyway? Paul is simply describing the effect our baptism has on us. He is describing Justification. All they have to do is look back a few verses to get the context and they would have learned:

    4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

    Our physical death has no effect on our sins. But since they are JW’s and not witnesses of Christ then what our Lord taught can be ignored.

    Joh 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins."

    Joseph

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    For once, I agree with Joseph Malik.

    To teach that our own death acquits us of past sin somehow and convince millions of people of this is incredible. It makes the blood of Christ worthless. What kind of people are JW’s anyway? Paul is simply describing the effect our baptism has on us. He is describing Justification. All they have to do is look back a few verses to get the context.

    Succinctly put.

    Here it is less succinctly put:

    Paul in this chapter uses "death" as a metaphor for baptism (i.e. the old self dies at baptism) and the metaphor of "slavery" to refer to a person's unjustified state or justified state (depending on who is the slaveholder). The key concept is that in Roman society, a slave's debt ends with his death. Another way a slave can resolve his/her debt is by saving up their peculium over a period of years to secure their own release. Construing sin as a slaveholder (v. 6), Paul states: "For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin, because anyone who has died has been freed/acquitted from sin" (Romans 6:6-7). Just as death releases slaves from their debts to slaveholders, so do Christians experience freedom from the slavery of sin. This does not mean that Christians cannot sin; it only means that if one does so, it because one chooses to continue follow sin (just as a freed slave can still work for his old master). Here is the fatal flaw in the JW reasoning, as I pointed out in a prior post on the subject:

    Though one is legally freed from slavery through death, this is does not mean that "a man's death atoned for his sins in relation to God, or that a dead man was no longer accountable to God for his sins" (Cranfield). This is because the legal relationship between man and sin is of an entirely different order than between man and God.

    Paul then states that "you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God" (v. 22). That is to say, one no longer is obligated to obey sin but to obey God. Then comes the next metaphor: "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (v. 23). This is also misinterpreted by the Society. Here Paul is using the image of a slaveholder paying out his peculium. Slaveholders did pay their slaves a small wage (primarily to buy "food" as various Latin writers note (cf. Cicero Phil. 8.32, Varro R. R. 1.2.17; Seneca, Moralia 80.7), and the Greek word for "wage" literally means "food ration"), and Paul is describing sin as paying out death to its slaves. Just like the peculium, this payment can eventually free the slave from his debt to sin, just as death releases the slave from the legal requirement of slavery. But for serving God and obeying him as master, those who are slaves to God receive a gift of eternal life; the freedom from sin (justification) means eternal life, freely given by grace of God.

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    Leolaia,

    How do you do hugs? ((((((( )))))) or somethink like that?

    Joseph

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    huugggss.....

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Yet I believe there is an important difference between Pauline and later orthodox, and especially Protestant, atonement theology on this very issue.

    I would put it this way: to Paul, in baptism the Christian identifies his/her own death with Christ's death. S/he thus anticipates his/her own future death in the sacrament, in view of a justification (or new life) which is actually a resurrection life (both that of the already resurrected Saviour and his own, future, resurrection life). S/he dies to sin as the Saviour dies to sin (later orthodoxy here gives two completely different meanings to the same expression, as applied either to the believer or to Christ). There is no such thing as an "objective expiation," from which one could, or could not, benefit. The Pauline atonement only works within this sacramentary and/or mystical relationship.

    Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? Therefore we have been buried with him by baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
    For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
    We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin. For whoever has died is freed
    (literally justified, dedikaiôtai) from sin.
    But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.
    We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. The death he died, he died to sin, once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

    Actually what Paul says is not "we are saved by Christ's death," but "we are saved by identifying our death with Christ's," which is quite another thing. This nuance in turn sheds light on a number of Pauline or post-Pauline statements which are regularly toned down by Protestantism, e.g.

    if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ--if, in fact, we suffer with him so that we may also be glorified with him.
    I am now rejoicing in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am completing what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body.
    for you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life is revealed, then you also will be revealed with him in glory.
  • Honesty
    Honesty
    To teach that our own death acquits us of past sin somehow and convince millions of people of this is incredible. It makes the blood of Christ worthless. What kind of people are JW’s anyway? Paul is simply describing the effect our baptism has on us. He is describing Justification. All they have to do is look back a few verses to get the context and they would have learned: Joseph Malik

    I knew you guys would understand it. Trouble is, the average JW will never look back a few verses to get the context of any scripture the Borg quotes or cites for their twisted doctrines.

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    Honesty, What is hiding here and in many other texts is Justification. Baptists usually say “are you Saved?” The Watchtower does not understand it. It is more important than resurrection. It is more important than immortality. Resurrection without Justification even if the resurrected person is immortal is not good. Such persons are still in trouble. Resurrection with Justification means that second death has no authority over them. Much better. It is a MAJOR teaching of the New Covenant yet few are grasping it. While our Lord used different words to describe Justification obtaining it is the Key to eternal life. 53 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever." Joseph

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