"Credulity ... is not a crime, ..."

by compound complex 8 Replies latest members private

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    [...] It was upon the vote of such as Athanasius that the [New] Testament
    was decreed to be the word of God; and nothing can present to us a more
    strange idea than that of decreeing the word of God by vote. Those who
    rest their faith upon such authority put man in the place of God, and have
    no true foundation for future happiness. Credulity, however, is not a crime,
    but it becomes criminal by resisting conviction. It is strangling in the womb
    of the conscience the efforts it makes to ascertain truth. We should
    never force belief upon ourselves in anything.

    - THE AGE OF REASON: BEING AN INVESTIGATION OF TRUE
    AND FABULOUS THEOLOGY, by Thomas Paine, p. 181 [paperback].

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    IN the former part of THE AGE OF REASON I have spoken of the three frauds, "mystery,"
    "miracle," and "prophecy"; and as I have seen nothing in any of the answers to that work
    that in the least affects what I have said upon those subjects, I shall not encumber this
    Second Part with additions that are not necessary.

    Do YOU have an answer to Mr. Paine?

  • changeling
    changeling
    We should
    never force belief upon ourselves in anything.

    I would tend to agree. "Believers" can be dangerous.

    Did you hear I'm going to hell?

    changeling

  • Tara
    Tara

    I have that book on my list to read, CoCo. I no longer believe in revealed religion. Still believe in God though.

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    The finalizing of the bible canon as we have it is something that JW indoctrination builds a fence around to protect you from the logic of your own thoughts and questions.

    Think about it. What are two of the biggest doctrines that JW's rail against? The imortality of the soul and the trinity. HOW DID THESE IDEAS GET INTO "CHRISTENDOM"? Through the votes that included the Athanasiun creed, the Council of Nicea, and other such "apostate" councils. These were also the people (and their theological descendants) who compiled the traditional bible canon.

    If you believe JW's, you believe that somehow Jehovah was powerful enough to make sure that the correct 66 books were included in the bible canon, but not powerful enough to stop man from incorrectly identifying god as a trinity. He was not powerful enought to clearly teach the idea of whether the soul is seperate or the actual person.

    These are questions I actually asked myself while I was in the borg, but the JW theology got in the way, and I barely dug at those questions. (this is also why I believe that cognitive dissonance exists). I held two totally contradictory ideas in my head. That apostates were used by Jehovah to assemble the bible, and that these same apostates poisoned the book Jehovah used them to assemble.

    It certainly isn't a question that JW's in particular can answer satisfactorily. The GB compares those who inserted the trinity for example as agents of Satan. So how does Jehovah use these agents of Satan to compile the bible canon?

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    Greetings and thank you!

    changeling:

    Yes, I heard! Does one have to make reservations or is the say-so of an unprofessional professional sufficient? I responded to Paine's comment about not resisting "personal conviction," a concept that must never override Society directives. Your point about "believers" being dangerous is right on. Nothing should be forced, whether from within or without.

    Tara:

    A deist friend - former JW - gave me his spare copy of TAOR. I cannot believe - due to preconditioning - the number of irregularities and absurdities in history presented as fact: Moses, Joshua, et al, could NOT have written the books ascribed to them. Get the book - soon!

    Jeff:

    Compelling point you've made re: JW acceptance of "this" but not "that." I am tearing down that fence around my mind and accepting the new view, but not without some difficulty. All the bases for my belief system are riddled with holes. I'm OK with starting over.

    Thanks again, all of you ...

    CoCo

  • llbh
    llbh

    Hi Coco et al

    If you want to understand a little more go to BBC radio4 home page and look up In our Time with Melvin Bragg Thursday 9: 00am where the Athanasian creed and the Nicean creed is discussed, further developing Jeff's point. It is very interesting and is available as a podcast .

    Regards llbh

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    llbh:

    Will look into that - thank you very much.

    Russell said, 'I must confess I owe a debt of gratitude to the Adventists, and to other denominations as well.' [words to that effect] I know JW theology is holey [not HOLY], but the realization that the Bible canon is likewise shot through with holes is overwhelming.

    I gotta take this sitting down!

    CoCo

  • outnfree
    outnfree

    llbh,

    Thanks for that info. I listened to the Melvin Bragg program and found it fascinating.
    I, too, keep meaning to read The Age of Reason, but haven't managed it yet.

    out

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