Further discusions with my dad

SickofLies

I E-mailed my dad a bunch of links to historical sites and one religous site that talk about the 607 BCE issue, I showed him the pictures the Doc posted and I gave him the links to the UN's web page to show that the information I gave him in my earlier E-mail from Wikipedia was not just properganda as he sugested. Here is the reply I recieved, he brought out some interesting points, again I ask how would you respond?

XXXXXX,
Well, I checked the UN web site and found that they were part of this ngo due to the fact of trying to uphold religious freedom in the world especially due to some of the brothers who were being severely persecuted in some parts of the world. I took note that ngo means that they do not have a seat as a member nation having dealings in political affairs where they would have a vote in the world affairs but it is just a position to push back and have some influence as to religious tolerance..

As for the 607 BCE issue, I noticed that careful examination of the scriptures that they cited, they are not completely correct. I don't have my sources with me at work but I need to get these to forward to you later.

As far as the name Jehovah not appearing in the Greek text, that you are correct in this instance.......ALMOST!!Â Please pay close attention to some detail. Jesus and other apostles quoted from the Hebrew text directly. Many of those quotes included Jehovah's name in the Hebrew text. However, then the big question is....why is God's name not in the original manuscripts? Easy...because none of the original and I repeat none of the original manuscripts are around. Only copies have been preserved. Since God's name was such a superstitious nature back then (that is being pronounced correctly), it is no wonder that it was excluded from the copyist. It is also noteworthy that there are other translations that use God's name in the Greek text as well. Jesus said at John chapter 17 verse 6: I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word.

later,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
[potential identifying info deleted]
(XXX) XXX-XXXX
[email address deleted]

Any sugestions as to a reply?

KW13

For you to help you with research read Jeremiah 25 up to and including verse 13.

Note: The surrounding nations mentioned in prophecy, in 12 note when the 70 years were to end...when the king was punished. When was the king punished? Babylon was captured in 539

SickofLies

Has there been any progress on find out why the society really joined the UN? I have read some links in the best of section, but most seems to be speculation.

KW13

well reasons why dont really excuse what happened.

NGO (non governmental orgs) were expected to support the UN charter. How can you walk past that? its the disgusting thing and anything to do with it isnt right if your a JW.

SickofLies

Here is my origional E-mail:

You dismissed all the claims as properganda, but just take a look at some
of these links:
http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/ngo-docs.html
http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/pdfs/watchtower.pdf
http://www.globalpolicy.org/ngos/ngo-un/rest-un/2001/1030j.htm

One the issue of 607 BCE.. Well..
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Archaeology/jerdavid.html
http://lexicorient.com/e.o/jerusalem.htm
http://jeru.huji.ac.il/jeru/timetable.html
http://www.direct.ca/trinity/exile.htm

"There was a fortified city on the site of old Jerusalem at the beginning of history. It was destroyed and rebuilt under the rule of Egypt,
Babylonia, Greece, and Rome. David, king of the Israelites, captured Jerusalem from the Jebusites in about 1000 BC. King Solomon, his son,
extended the city and built the great temple that stood until 586 BC when it was destroyed by King Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon. In the 50 years of
their Babylonian captivity the Israelites remembered Jerusalem and sang the songs of Zion: "If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her
cunning." (Compton's Encyclopedia Online)

"Babylonian Captivity, term applied to the period between the deportation of the Jews from Palestine to Babylon by the Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar
II and their release in 538BC by the Persian king Cyrus. Two main deportations are recorded: one in 597BC, when Israelite nobles, warriors, and artisans were transported; and one in 586BC when Nebuchadnezzar's army destroyed Jerusalem, and the major part of the remaining Israelite community was taken to Babylon. At the time of the second deportation an important group of Israelites fled to Egypt; thereafter, only the poorest peasants were allowed to remain in Palestine, and the political dissolution of independent Israel was an accomplished fact. The majority of the Jews living in Babylon did not return to Palestine at the end of the exile period, but became a part of the Diaspora, or body of Jews dispersed among nations outside Palestine." (Encarta Encyclopedia MSN Online)

"A weakened and divided country could not sustain its independence indefinitely; consequently, Israel fell to Assyria in about 722BC and the Babylonians conquered Judah in 586BC. This defeat resulted in the destruction of Jerusalem and the exile of most of the Jews to Babylon -- the so-called Babylonian captivity." (arab website/arab.net)

"Babylonian captivity in the history of Israel, the period from the fall of Jerusalem (586 B.C.) to the reconstruction in Palestine of a new Jewish state (after 538 B.C.). After the capture of the city by the Babylonians some thousands, probably selected for their prosperity and importance, were deported to Mesopotamia. The number of those who remained is disputed by scholars. Such deportations were commonplace in Assyrian and Babylonian policy. The exiles maintained close links with their kinsmen at home, as is clear from Ezekiel, the prophet of the early years of the Exile. In 538 B.C., Cyrus the Great, the new master of the empire, initiated a new attitude toward the nations and decreed the restoration of worship at Jerusalem." (The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition/online)

Easton's Bible Dictionary - "A third time he came against it, and deposed Jehoiachin, whom he carried into Babylon, with a large portion of the population of the city, and the sacred vessels of the temple, placing Zedekiah on the throne of Judah in his stead. He also, heedless of the warnings of the prophet, entered into an alliance with Egypt, and rebelled against Babylon. This brought about the final siege of the city, which was at length taken and utterly destroyed (B.C. 586). Zedekiah was taken captive, and had his eyes put out by order of the king of Babylon, who made him a prisoner for the remainder of his life."

I also included the pictures post in British Field museam thread...

SickofLies

KW13, Good points, I will include these in my responce...

KW13

No problem, feel free to pester us all here and we'll help. Be aware your dad isnt gonna drop his religion immediately and the best way to go is steady

undercover

Has there been any progress on find out why the society really joined the UN? I have read some links in the best of section, but most seems to be speculation.

I know that this is nit-picky but it's very important when discussing the WTS involvement with the UN. The WTS did not join the UN. They sought recognized NGO status to gain association with the Department of Public Information. Being an NGO or associated with the DPI does not make one a member of the UN. Only nations/governments can join the UN.

As to why they wanted to become involved with them doesn't really matter. Whether it was a library card or to push religious freedom rights in foreign countries, it doesn't matter. The UN is the image of the wild beast. It is the beast that the harlot(Bablyon the Great) is condemned for riding. Religions that supported the UN in the same exact fashion as the WTS did during the 90s are condemned by the WTS for their actions. Individual JWs are DFd and shunned for their joining any organization that may have political or religious connections, be it minor and insignificant. (See the WT on if joining the YMCA is okay for "christians")

It is the hypocrisy of the action that is the scandal. Not the reason why. The fact that they dare become entangled with a worldly governmental entity after years and years of condemning such organizations smacks of the highest hypocrisy.

That, I believe, is what must be impressed on JWs who don't seem to be bothered by the WTS involvement with the UN through the NGO/DPI arrangement.

But then, if they don't see it right off, if they aren't bothered by it to some degree, then they are really indoctrinated into believing that the WTS can do no wrong. Unfortunately in those cases it's like pissing in a fan when trying to reason with those folks.

gumby

Frickin Undercover took all "my thoughts"(tm)

I took note that ngo means that they do not have a seat as a member nation having dealings in political affairs where they would have a vote in the world affairs but it is just a position to push back and have some influence as to religious tolerance..

As undercover covered so well, it does not matter one bit WHAT their reason was.

It's like saying "the only reason I was in the Porn shop was so I could further the good news to sexfiends, but I wasn't watching any dirty movies or reading anything".

Gumby

gumby

SOL,

Here is a recent post of the mentality many witnesses have in regards to them being exposed.

This is a "recent" post by In A NewYork Bethel Minute,

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/110588/1929031/post.ashx#1929031

I'd like to also say it's cool your dad will at least respond to your questions. Hopefully he will continue to do so in that you may provide more proofs for him.

Gumby

Further discusions with my dad

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