Is it unfair to be skeptical of JW literature?

by TD 7 Replies latest jw friends

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  TD

  Why do many here take such a dim view of the integrity and quality of research of Witness publications? Are we just being mean? What have they done to deserve this?

  Consider one example: As proof that we are living in a time of unprecedented earthquake frequency the Awake! of February 22 1977 made the following claim:

  "Interestingly, for a period of 1,059 years (856 to 1914 C.E.), reliable sources list only 24 major earthquakes, with 1,972,952 fatalities. But compare that with the accompanying partial list citing 43 instances of earthquakes, in which 1,579,209 persons died during just the 62 years from 1915 to 1976 C.E. " (p. 11)

  Despite the claim, no "reliable source" was cited as proof thereof. If this in and of itself was not amazing, the events which followed certainly were. In the October 8, 1978 edition of the magazine Il Piccolo, Italian writer Geo Malagoli incorporated the above figures into his own article:

  "Our generation lives in a dangerous period of high seismic activity, as statistics show. In fact, during a period of 1,059 years (from 856 to 1914) reliable sources list only 24 major earthquakes causing 1,973,000 deaths. However, [in] recent disasters, we find that 1,600,000 persons have died in only 63 years, as a result of 43 earthquakes which occurred from 1915 to 1978. This dramatic increase further goes to emphasize another accepted fact?our generation is an unfortunate one in many ways."

  Now we all know that if you claim that such and such a thing is true, simply quoting someone that quoted you hardly constitutes a "reliable source". Nobody is that dishonest, right? Wrong! In the next few years the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society was to use Il Piccolo?s direct adaptation of their own figures as proof of those same figures no less than eight times!

  Discussing recent earthquakes, the Italian journal "II Piccolo" observed: "Our generation lives in a dangerous period of high seismic activity, as statistics show. In fact, during a period of 1,059 years (from 856 to 1914) reliable sources list only 24 major earthquakes causing 1,973,000 deaths. However, if we compare this figure to the partially complete list of recent disasters, we find that 1,600,000 persons have died in only 63 years, as a result of 43 earthquakes which occurred from 1915 to 1978." (The Watchtower June 15, 1979 p.11)

  In Il Piccolo, Geo Malagoli observes: "Our generation lives in a dangerous period of high seismic activity, as statistics show. In fact, during a period of 1,059 years (from 856 to 1914) reliable sources list only 24 major earthquakes causing 1,973,000 deaths. However, [in] recent disasters, we find that 1,600,000 persons have died in only 63 years, as a result of 43 earthquakes which occurred from 1915 to 1978. This dramatic increase further goes to emphasize another accepted fact?our generation is an unfortunate one in many ways." (Happiness?How To Find It p. 148)

  Has the frequency of earthquakes really increased? The Italian magazine Il Piccolo observed: "Our generation lives in a dangerous period of high seismic activity, as statistics show." And then it produced figures for the past thousand years to prove it. (Awake! October 8, 1980 pp. 20,21)

  As Geo Malagoli commented in Il Piccolo: "During a period of 1,059 years (from 856 to 1914) reliable sources list only 24 major earthquakes." His figures show that during those years an average of 1,800 persons died each year in earthquakes, whereas there have been 43 major earthquakes since 1915, and these have killed an average of 25,300 persons a year. (Let Your Kingdom Come p. 113)

  "Earthquakes in one place after another." (Matthew 24:7) Before 1914, an estimated 1,800 persons a year died in earthquakes. Since 1914 the yearly average is 25,300.?Geo Malagoli, in Il Piccolo. (Awake! April 8, 1982 p. 13)

  From 1914 until now, there have been many more major earthquakes than in any other like period in recorded history. For over 1,000 years, from the year 856 C.E. to 1914, there were only 24 major earthquakes, causing some 1,973,000 deaths. But in the 63 years from 1915 to 1978, a total of some 1,600,000 persons have died in 43 great earthquakes. (The Watchtower April 15, 1982 p.9)

  From 1914 until now, there have been many more major earthquakes than in any other like period in recorded history. For over 1,000 years, from the year 856 C.E. to 1914, there were only 24 major earthquakes, causing some 1,973,000 deaths. But in the 63 years from 1915 to 1978, a total of some 1,600,000 persons died in 43 great earthquakes. (You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth p.149)

  In the Italian journal Il Piccolo, of October 8, 1978, Geo Malagoli observed: "Our generation lives in a dangerous period of high seismic activity, as statistics show. In fact, during a period of 1,059 years (from 856 to 1914) reliable sources list only 24 major earthquakes causing 1,973,000 deaths. However, [in] recent disasters, we find that 1,600,000 persons have died in only 63 years, as a result of 43 earthquakes which occurred from 1915 to 1978. This dramatic increase further goes to emphasize another accepted fact?our generation is an unfortunate one in many ways." (The Watchtower May 15, 1983 p. 6)

  When it comes to Witness publications, there are few venues where the term caveat emptor is more appropriate
• 

  Carmel

  The silly thing about your example is that the term "earthquake" is likely alegorical and has nothing to do with a literal physical event. Another literalistic/materialistic rendering of Jdumbs, not unlike much of xtianity.

  carmel
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  larc

  TD, you should read, The Sign of The Last Days -When? by Carl Olof Jonsson. His book is very detailed and scholarly, and he draws far different conclusions than are found in the quotes you provide. To get a balanced view should read his work. He devotes 41 pages of his book to the subject of earthquakes. I thing you will find his work to be much more complete that what you have provided us. ............................................................................................ Regarding WT research, as a researcher myself, I find it to be very shoddy, indeed. They do not provide references to their quotes. Sometimes they do not even provide a name for the person they quote, so it is impossible to determine the context of the quote. They have been known to take quotes out of context and distort the meaning of the quote. They have been known to take two quotes that are pages apart in a docuement and put them side by side. This is very deceiving indeed, and shows a lack of professional ethics. This latter point has been discussed here before and examples have been given. Yes, in terms of WT so called scholarship, let the buyer beware. ............................................................................................ No, I am not being unfair at all. I am simply stating the facts as someone who understands research and the standards of scholarship. I think I have explained what they have done to deserve this.
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  larc

  Sorry TD, I misread part of your post. You point out that the quote used WT sources in order claim the truth of the earth quake situation. Surely, the auther was lazy and promoted something not true by using WT literature.
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  Corvin

  "Earthquakes in one place after another." (Matthew 24:7)

  That scripture is ambiguous and open to different interpretations. Define "one place after another". The wind blows "in one place after another". The rain falls "in one place after another". Sex happens "in one place after another". Farting happens "in one place after another".
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  TD

  Hi Larc,

  Sorry TD, I misread part of your post. You point out that the quote used WT sources in order claim the truth of the earth quake situation. Surely, the auther was lazy and promoted something not true by using WT literature.

  Gee, I've got to be the poorest communicator in the whole world. That was the part of the point, but not the main part.

  This was my point:

  A. The JW's make a claim and provide no proof of the claim

  B. The writer of another magazine (Either through laziness or perhaps he was a JW himself) parrots this claim

  C. The JW's subsequently quote this author as proof of the claim (Eight times to be exact)

  Quoting someone that simply quoted you is obviously not proof though. It would be like:

  A. "Bob" makes a claim on JWD

  B. "Pete" repeats this claim almost word for word on another forum

  C. "Bob" quotes "Pete" as proof of his claim

  Of course this wouldn't be "proof" by any stretch of the imagination. Since Pete has simply repeated what Bob said, Bob would in effect, be presenting his own claim as proof of that claim. If you've got a real dry sense of humor (like me) the whole situation would be sad to the point of being humorous.

  That's why this quote from a 1980 Awake! strikes me as uproariously funny:

  The Italian magazine Il Piccolo observed: "Our generation lives in a dangerous period of high seismic activity, as statistics show." And then it produced figures for the past thousand years to prove it.

  What was the source of these "figures for the past thousand years to prove it"? It was the Awake! magazine itself just three years prior to this!! The writers of the Awake! were in effect presenting their own claim as proof of the claim --a piece of dishonesty so transparent as to be funny (and a little sad too)

  Tom
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  larc

  Tom, you are not the worst writer in the world. I am the worst reader.
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  Quotes

  IIRC, we just discussed this exact same topic, using the same earthquake, Il Piccolo examples, in a thread about "Circular Reasoning". But I'm to lazy to look it up right now.