Where did the Pleides idea come from?

by IronGland 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • IronGland
    IronGland

    Did Rutherford just make it up while drunk one day, or is there an older tradition of naming the Pleides God's home?

    The constellation of the seven stars forming the Pleiades appears to be the crowning center around which the known systems of the planets revolve.... It has been suggested, and with much weight, that one of the stars of that group is the dwelling place of Jehovah and the place of the highest heavens;....

    The constellation of the Pleiades is a small one compared with others which scientific instruments disclose to the wondering eyes of man. But the greatness in size of other stars or planets is small when compared to the Pleiades in importance, because the Pleiades is the place of the eternal throne of God.

    J. F. Rutherford, Reconciliation, 1928, p. 14

    If anyone is bored, perhaps they could Photoshop Jehovah into this pic of the Pleides.

  • Badger
    Badger

    You got me...I thought his throne was in the Romulan Empire...

  • shotgun
    shotgun

    Had something to do with the great Pyramid.

    The passage was placed at an angle which lined up perfectly with the pleides and I also think there is something in the book of Job.

    Check the 1950 wt's I remember there was something in them about it.

    onacruse might have the info

  • shotgun
    shotgun

    Here we go, they make it sound like the idea is nonsense even though they beleived it all those years.

    *** w53 11/15 703 Questions from Readers *** Questions from Readers

    ó What is meant by ?binding the sweet influences of the Pleiades? or ?loosing the bands of Orion? or ?bringing forth Mazzaroth in his seasons? or ?guiding Arcturus with his sons,? as mentioned at Job 38:31, 32??W. S., New York.

    Some attribute striking qualities to these constellations or star groups and on the basis of such they then offer private interpretations of Job 38:31, 32 that amaze their hearers. Their views are not always sound from the standpoint of astronomy, and when viewed Scripturally they are completely without foundation. Why? Because we do not know which stars or groups of stars are being referred to in these Þ Job 38 Ü verses Þ 31, 32 Ü . The names Pleiades, Orion and Arcturus are not the names given in the Bible. Some translations make Mazzaroth refer to the signs of the Zodiac. English translators have merely adopted these pagan names given to constellations or star groups and have inserted them in their translations in the place of the original names that appear in the Hebrew Scriptures, namely, Kimah, K esil, Mazzaroth and ?Ayish. To just what stars or star groups these names refer we do not know today. Hence it is useless to indulge in unprofitable speculations. Incidentally, Pleiades can no longer be considered the center of the universe and it would be unwise for us to try to fix God?s throne as being at a particular spot in the universe. Were we to think of the Pleiades as his throne we might improperly view with special veneration that cluster of stars.?Deut.

    *** w53 7/1 389 Too Big for God? *** There was a time when God was completely alone. Yet without anyone?s help he created the Logos or Word who later became Christ Jesus. As a mighty spirit creature the Logos was ?the beginning of the creation by God?, and ?all things came into existence through him?. (Rev. 3:14; John 1:3, NW) Through God?s power this master workman created myriads of spirit creatures and inanimate bodies. All this he did without first creating man; in fact, God did not need man?s advice in the creation of our home-town planet. Jehovah himself declared his absolute independence of man: ?Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if you have insight. Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades, or loosen the girdle of Orion? Can you send forth Mazzaroth in its season, and lead forth the Bear with its satellites? Can you send forth the lightnings that they may go and say to you, ?Here we are!????Job 38:4, 31, 32, 35, AT.

  • Badger
    Badger

    Hold up...

    Wasn't Orion and Pleadies from Greek Mythology?

    How did Moses (the presume author of Job) know about it?

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    The night sky has existed longer than man.

    Ever since the time of our great ancestor Lucy, primates have gazed with wonder at the night sky, and because the primate brain is a pattern-recognition engine, individuals saw "pictures" in the sky. They made up stories to explain to their tribe how the pictures got up there.

    Throughout history, and in every culture, these pictures have had names. Today we are most familiar with the names that come from our greatest cultural ancestors, but there are other names, and other pictures seen by people from other cultures both ancient and contemporary.

    When Lucy's great-great-great-great grandson Moses was born, he probably called the constellations by their Egyptian names, since he was (supposedly) educated in the Egyptof the pharoahs.

    The pattern of dots that we call Orion is one of the most easily recognizable in the night sky, and the central "belt" is spectacular. Imagine a night sky without smog diffusing the light and without "light polution" from large illuminated cities. It must have been something to see.

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    It has been suggested, and with much weight, that one of the stars of that group is the dwelling place of Jehovah

    JF Rutherford wrote "it has been suggested". Whenever the key words "evidently", "likely" or "without doubt" appear in any Watchtower publication, what follows will be nonsense.

    However those weasel-words (like "evidently") will allow the Watchtower to slip out from previous "light" at any time when it is convenient for the publishers of that nonsense to do so!

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Rutherford was just following popular ancient and modern pagan culture.

    http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/native/ceremony/pleiades.htm

    The Pleiades are one of the interesting constellations of the winter months. Garrett P. Serviss says: "In every age and in every country, the Pleiades have been watched, admired, and wondered at, for they are visible from every inhabited land on the globe. To many, they are popularly known as the Seven Stars, although few persons can see more than six stars in the group with the unaided eye. . . .

    These seven were the fabled daughters of Atlas, or the Antlantides, whose names were Merope, Alcyone, Celaeno, Electra, Taygeta, Asterope, and Maia. One of the stories connected with them is that Merope married a mortal, whereupon her star grew dim among her sisters. Another fable assures us that Electra, unable to endure the sight of the burning of Troy, bid her face in her hands, and so blotted her star f rom the sky. While we may smile at these stories, we cannot entirely disregard them, for they are intermingled with some of the richest literary treasures of the world, and they come to us, like some old keepsake, perfumed with the memory of a past age.

    "The mythological history of the Pleiades is intensely interesting, too, because it is world wide. They have impressed their mark, in one way or another, upon the habits, customs, traditions, language, and history of probably every nation. This is true of savage tribes as well as of great empires. The Pleiades furnish one of the principal links that appear to connect the beginnings of human history with that wonderful prehistoric past, where, as through a gulf of mist, we seem to perceive faintly the glow of a golden age beyond." (Astronomy with an Opera Glass.)

    See also http://www.kitezh.com/sevensisters/pleiades.htm for mythology from greek, arab, andian, mayan etc origins.

    SS

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    For your reading pleasure (LOL):

    May, 1895 Watchtower page 121

    Our solar system of planets is also found to be revolving together around some other great center; and far beyond the farthest limits of our system, by the aid of the telescope, other suns and systems are discerned, all presumably revolving with ours around some common center,--the group Pleiades. And the reasonable suggestion has been made that that center may be the heaven of heavens, the highest heaven, the throne of God.

    December, 1896 Watchtower page 291

    QUESTIONS OF GENERAL INTEREST.

    Question. Is heaven a place or a condition? If a place, where is it?

    Answer. While it is true that beings might be in a heavenly condition; that is, spiritual and invisible to human sight, and yet be near us who are in the flesh; and while we believe that is the condition in which our Lord is now present, a spiritual or heavenly being, we could not agree that heaven is only a condition; it must also be a place, just as truly as the earth is a place. The most reasonable suggestion we know of is that offered in MILLENNIAL DAWN, Vol. III., page 327; namely, that heaven is located in or in connection with the heavenly group, Pleiades.

    Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 3, page 327-8

    The Great Pyramid has also its own way of indicating the most correct standard of all weights and measures, based upon the size and weight of the earth, which it is also claimed to indicate.

    Commenting upon the scientific testimony and the location of this majestic "Witness," Rev. Joseph Seiss, D.D. suggests:

    "There is a yet grander thought embodied in this wonderful structure. Of its five points there is one of special pre-eminence, in which all its sides and exterior lines terminate. It is the summit corner, which lifts its solemn index finger to the sun at midday, and by its distance from the base tells the mean distance to that sun from the earth. And if we go back to the date which the Pyramid gives itself and look for what that finger pointed to at midnight, we find a far sublimer indication. Science has at last discovered that the sun is not a dead center, with planets wheeling about it, and itself stationary. It is now ascertained that the sun also is in motion, carrying with it its splendid retinue of comets, planets, its satellites and theirs, around some other and vastly mightier center. Astronomers are not yet fully agreed as to what or where that center is. Some, however, believe that they have found the direction of it to be the Pleiades, and particularly Alcyone, the central one of the renowned Pleiadic stars. To the distinguished German astronomer, Prof. J. H. Maedler, belongs the honor of having made this discovery. Alcyone, then, as far as science has been able to perceive, would seem to be 'the midnight throne' in which the whole system of gravitation has its central seat, and from which the Almighty governs his universe. And here is the wonderful corresponding fact, that at the date of the Great Pyramid's building, at midnight of the autumnal equinox, and hence the true beginning of the year as still preserved in the traditions of many nations, the Pleiades were distributed over the meridian of this Pyramid, with Alcyone (A Tauri) precisely on the line. Here, then, is a pointing of the highest and sublimest character that mere human science has ever been able so much as to hint, and which would seem to breathe an unsuspected and mighty meaning into that speech of God to Job, when he demanded, 'Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades?'"

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    Your own post explains the origin quite well... someone suggested that it was where Jehover lives... and they ran with it.

    Talk about TRUTH!

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