A Jehovah's Witness; two people in one skin...

by Abaddon 10 Replies latest jw friends

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    The excellent threads started by Amazing and JT sum up different aspects of a way of looking at my family I only recently realised that I had developed.

    To give background, I walked away in '93 but have retained fairly good relations with my family although I have never had a 'show-down' regarding beliefs, just a few half-hearted fire-fights.

    My girlfriend (never a JW) had met them a few times. A few months ago we went for a meal at their house. I think that my parents had decided beforehand to 'get her alone', so my dad asked for help with his PC in his office at home.

    My mum and my girlfriend were in the living room; I could hear what was going on from where I was.

    My mum was basically doing the "It is the truth you know" bit (a JW mind trick; sincere repetiton, eye contact, gesture, head nod... what do they think they are, some kind of Jedi??), and my girlfriend was trying not to have hysterics at the idea of a ventriloquist demon using a snake and Eve just standing there chatting with it happily instead of going "Wow, a talking snake! Adam honey, look it's a fucking talking snake, get a gourd I wanna keep it!!"

    Up to that point, she'd seen them as they are. Two very wonderful, wise, loving people, with an active social life in their '70's.

    But now she saw the other side.

    Back in our hotel room (they don't like us sleeping in the same room if they are at home, but don't mind us using their bed when they are away or paying for a hotel room if we're in town; simultaneously cool and twisted) we went over it.

    For my gf it was a severe headfuck (sorry, no other word) that such lovely people should start whittering on about utter balls out of nowhere.

    In a flash of inspiration I said;

    "Ah-ha! But I have two sets of parents. The wonderful ones and the mad cultists."

    I think this is true for all of us with family or friends in the Borg. In fact it's true for every Witness. They are just normal people, no worse or better than you or me. But they have been infected with a vile mind-virus that makes them act at times in a horrible way.

    Behind every mind-conditioned cultist there is a real human being trying to get out. How can we have been victims of a cult if they are not also victims of a cult?

    Obviously active Witnesses sometimes behave in henious ways due to their cult beliefs. But they are acting according to their nature. How many of us got up in the Kingdom Hall and screamed "But that's INHUMAN!!" when they disfellowshipped people??

    Just like we did things we are not proud of, if the poor poor people still in the Borg could look at their actions and beliefs OBJECTIVELY, they'd wonder what the hell they were doing.

    But they can't. Is it worthwhile getting mad at a cat for killing birds? No. Is there any point being pissed of with a snake 'cause it bites you? Not really.

    Likewise NO MATTER HOW JUSTIFIED WE MIGHT BE GIVEN THEIR BEHAVIOUR, there's very little point in taking anything a Jehovah's Witless does personally. I know and understand it is sometimes hard - being disowned or treated like a sinner by your own flesh and blood is vile. Staying quiet whilst they spout utter garbage is painful.

    But you see, we need to bear their weakness in mind. Anyone of us could push the right buttons and get a Witness to run screaming in fear of an attack by the demons. It's not big or clever, just start drooling, shaking violently and chanting "Satan" continuously under your breath while you roll your eyes back in your head; they'd be back-flipping through windows before you could say 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer'.

    That's a silly example, obviously. But given any situation, you can predict how they would react. How? Because all we have to do is cast our mind back a little and think "What would I have done if someone did that?"

    So, we have to be very big, and very grown up, and instead of pushing their buttons out of our own frustration, or reacting when the nasty little cultist pushes ours, we can interact with the real person hidden underneath all that shit.

    The more we deal with the normal person; our mum, our dad, our siblings, rather than Brother x or Sister y, the more we have a chance of planting little mind bombs that get under the cult armour.

    Frontal assaults they are ready for. It vindicates their faith. We become a self-fufilling prophesy "bitter twisted apostates".

    But being normal, and being happy, well, that's a big enough jolt of cognitive dissonance for them to be getting on with... time will allow others, like innocent little curious questions, so it builds up to the point where what we REALLY WANT happens.

    The day when we get to have a proper conversation with our loved ones in the Borg, rather than a futile arguement with a mad cultist.

    Love and peace to you all, and good luck...

    Abaddon

  • jschwehm
    jschwehm

    Hi Abaddon-

    Your points are well taken. Steven Hassan talks alot about this in his book "Releasing the Bonds-Empowering People to Think For Themselves". Also, his book "Combatting Cult Mind Control" touches on this some as well.

    Jeff S.

  • reagan_oconnor
    reagan_oconnor
    Frontal assaults they are ready for. It vindicates their faith. We become a self-fufilling prophesy "bitter twisted apostates".

    But being normal, and being happy, well, that's a big enough jolt of cognitive dissonance for them to be getting on with... time will allow others, like innocent little curious questions, so it builds up to the point where what we REALLY WANT happens.

    AMEN! Whenever the sibs or the parents ask how I am, I say "Wonderful! Great! Couldn't be better!" And I'm telling the truth. They seem so surprised that I'm not withering away. Bit of a shock to them, 'eh?

    Cheers,
    Reagan

    "I'm not a woman to be honked at." -- Maureen O'Hara, The Quiet Man

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    Abaddon gave me a lot to think about here. I have a long ongoing battle with my aged mother. It goes back to when we were all witnesses, my parents getting baptized when I was five years old. But, lately I have been feeling that she has a multiple personality disorder, or is schizophrenic, or some other mental illness. I do believe she has a form of mental illness, but the points he made about the cult personality are very true. There are times, few and far between, when she can be a normal mother, and maybe the real personality comes through. The rest of the time, she is just a very difficult person to be around, and I am not the only one who feels this way. The latest problem she caused, involved the elders in her congregation, because she just couldn't shut up, badmouthing me. I have told her in no uncertain terms over the past five years to NOT talk about us to anyone. "Don't give any information, no matter what you think they will do with it. Don't answer any questions about us. Tell them they need to talk to us" etc. We are not df'd or da'd, but no thanks to her. Fortunately, the elders in her congregation see her as a strange woman, but they still fawn all over her, and listen to her anyway. But, my husband went to talk to one of the elders to defend us, (he is a friend, and it was informal) and this elder's wife, who reported it all to me. The PO in the congregation told her that much of the trouble is of her own making, and that she needs to learn how to talk to me, so as not to "push my buttons". She is terrified that we will stop supporting her, and she will have to go to a home, but still she talks. We will always take care of her, so she needn't worry there. I sent her montly check to her yesterday, with a man I knew who was going to visit her, and she sent me a thank you not, very stiff, but a thank you anyway. I think eventually I will go over there again, but I am so angry still, that I just have to stay away for now. Anyway, thanks Abaddon.

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    For me the great thing about this viewpoint is it means you can put all the negative stuff in a box. It increases the chance of having some kind of relationship with family if you don't feel like you have to deal with their cultishness all the time. It makes the bad stuff hurt less. It makes you the responsible person, the person in control.

    The actual "I have two sets of parents" actually popped out of my mouth as I saw my girlfriend (completely freaked by actually having seen them 'go cult' for the first time) trying to find a way she could say my parents were completely insane without hurting me.

    "Don't worry" I said, "you can say what you like about the mad cultists".

    And this is true too; if you have a never-JW partner, them being able to vent about your mad cultist parents is very good for them, and shouldn't bother you in the least bit as they're not attacking your parents but the mad cultists, who are two completely different sets of people.

    All the best

  • TR
    TR

    Good info, Abaddon.

    This situation is happening right now with my older JW brother. He tersley denied WT pranks such as changing WT phrases such as "20th century" to "our day". Instead of firing back at him, I sent a scanned copy of the original WT article. I haven't heard from him since. Maybe now, after all these years, he's shunning me. Or, maybe I planted a seed of truth(borrowing WT phraseology) that he's still pondering.

    Anyway, I'm trying my best not to get irritated at him for his total ignorance and denial.

    TR

    "cults suck"

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Mmmm... it's a tricky one.

    He's got a big fat bolus of dissonance stuck in his throat.

    Best thing is that he'd seek out a unbound Watchtower and double check you're not fooling him. Unfortunately he might just not deal with it.

    All the best

  • rodnico
    rodnico

    A very similar thing happened to me the past weekend. My mother came to visit my boyfriend and me. She said she would not stay with us, but when she got to our place she felt very comfortable (due to my boyfriend being very kind).

    At the end of her visit we did talk about our relationship, and she said to me "I was a good mother" "I did the best I knew how" and things of this nature. What I said to her back was yes you were a good mother. You as an individual without the dogma and rhetoric. That person I cherish, and value all of the lessons that person taught me. She did not know how to take that. Her face scrunched up, and she changed the subject.
    I describe my mother in the same manner to people. She has 2 people inside of her at war. Who she is really, her brilliant feminist personality, and the cult person rigid and hard. Since I was a child she has been at war with her duality.

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    rodnico; *hugs*

    That's how I feel too, thanks for sharing.

  • Tina
    Tina

    Hi rodnico,
    Well said!! Describes my mom to a tee. regards,Tina

    Carl Sagan on balancing openness to new ideas with skeptical scrutiny...."if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense,you cannot distinguish useful ideas from worthless ones."

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