WT Information site......FAQ's......ahhhhhhg!

by qwerty 13 Replies latest jw friends

  • qwerty
    qwerty

    For any new ones here. Can you spot the WT double speak in the two FAQ's?

    Or anyone else like to comment? (Not open to Fred, coz we've heard it all before!)

    Do you shun former members?

    Those who simply cease to be involved in the faith are not shunned. In compliance with the Scriptures, however, members can be expelled for serious unchristian conduct, such as stealing, drunkenness, or adultery, if they do not repent and cease such actions. Disfellowshipping does not sever family ties. Disfellowshipped members may continue to attend religious services, and if they wish, they may receive pastoral visits. They are always welcome to return to the faith.—1 Corinthians 5:11-13.

    Do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?

    No. Many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah's Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before God's time of judgment, and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. Humans look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. God has committed judgment into Jesus' hands, not ours.—Matthew 7:1-5; John 5:22, 27.


    qwerty..........
    .............
  • MacHislopp
    MacHislopp

    Hello QWERTY,

    thanks for the post. Btw save the WTS quotes,
    you'll run the risk that in further edition it will disappear!
    As for the general comment, your post shows one of the many
    statement from the WTS directed to the media, and generally
    to those on the outside. Another matter, are the statements
    for the R&F in the magazines,books and other publications .
    Justy try to see for your self under the word : salvation
    and see what the WTS has been writing for the last 50 years,
    concerning those who'll be saved!

    Agape, J.C.MacHislopp

  • Thirdson
    Thirdson

    Qwerty,

    Do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?

    While they say "NO" on the media spin site Milton Henschel contradicts that with a "YES". A book on Religion in America I flipped through in a book store recently compares the official beliefs of various groups with statements from the various leaders. The questions are similar for each religion, (Who is God, Jesus the Devil? Do you believe in an afterlife? etc.) Milton Henschel is the source for the JW's and in answer to the question "Do you believe only Jehovah's Witnesses will be saved?", his answer is along the lines of "Yes, of course. That is why we preach and make converts."

    The spin site questions contain the more contentious beliefs of the WTS and the answers are their best way of weaseling out. I'd say they are lying but I guess the WTS beliefs about what lies are would get them off the hook.

    Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth... Insight on the Scriptures(it-2-E) 1988

    Thirdson

    'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'

  • outnfree
    outnfree

    I think I am going to type up the answer to the shunning question, enlarge it onto an 8x10 sheet of paper, encase it in a plastic sleeve, and carry it around in my purse so that every time I meet up with a member of my former congregation I can whip it out and pin it to my chest before I politely approach them and say, "Hello, _____. Nice to see you. Fabulous weather we're having, isn't it?"

    (I DA'd myself -- so nobody need fear that I was "expelled for serious unchristian conduct"!)

    It is to laugh!
    outnfree

  • Had Enough
    Had Enough

    Hi qwerty:

    This statement that former members and family members are not shunned absolutely baffles me too! I've mentioned this in a couple of my recent posts on the subject. How can they expect to get away with that kind of an outright lie with so many non-JWs becoming aware of the real 'truth'???

    Perhaps Thirdson has hit the nail on the head with his quotation from the Insight book:

    Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth... Insight on the Scriptures(it-2-E) 1988

    Along with that, HesterPryne found and quoted in her post on "Questions for Shunned Persons" in the Beliefs and Doctrines" topics, 2 WT articles showing further what the WTS says about lying and when its OK.

    Here is what the WTS says for those of us who have forgotten this or never knew it:

    Watchtower 1956

    "The enemies [here identified as those who resist or persecute Jehovah's Witnesses] did not deserve to learn the truth to the hurt or endangerment of Jehovah's servants. In wartime it is proper to misdirect the wolfish enemy. .. It is proper to cover over our arrangements for the work that God commands us to do. If the wolfish foes draw wrong conclusions from our maneuvers to outwit them, no harm has been done to them by the harmless sheep, innocent in their motives as doves." {WT Feb 1 1956 80/86}

    So I guess it is part of their "maneuvers to outwit" the public who must be considered to be the wolfish enemy and doesn't deserve to know the truth.

    And then if we don't agree with their strategy, we are reminded to not criticize the 'mother org,' in this next article in the 1957 Watchtower.

    "Trust Your Proved, Faithful Brothers.. Showing respect for Jehovah's organization really resolves itself down to our attitude toward God's visible channel and the trust that we place in our proved, faithful brothers. If we have become thoroughly convinced that this is Jehovah's organization, that he is guiding and directing his people, then we shall not be unsettled by anything that happens.

    If something comes up that we do not understand we will wait patiently until it is made thoroughly clear to us. If we feel sure something is wrong we will 'keep the commandment' of our Father and take whatever theocratic steps are open to us and then wait on Jehovah. We will not 'forsake our mother's teaching' by immediately beginning to criticize and find fault. We will realize that Jehovah knows what is going on in his organization, and if he is willing to permit it, who are we to insist it should be different? If we really have faith, we will know that if it is wrong he will straighten it out eventually, and we are far safer inside his organization even with these minor difficulties than we would be on the outside where only chaos and destruction await us..[We must] show our respect for Jehovah's organization, for she is our mother and the beloved wife of our heavenly Father, Jehovah God..

    A Witness of Jehovah was going from house to house in Eastern Germany when she met a violent opposer. Knowing at once what to expect she changed her red blouse for a green one in the very next hallway. No sooner had she appeared on the street than a Communist officer asked her if she had seen a woman with a red blouse. No, she replied, and went on her way. Did she tell a lie? No, she did not. She was not a liar. Rather, she was using theocratic war strategy, hiding the truth by action and word for the sake of the ministry." {WT May 1 1957 284-5}

    I'm glad to have come across this info on the WTS official website and the quotations found by Thirdson and HesterPryne. The statements seem to sum up the "strategy" quite clearly.

    Had Enough (of doublespeak and lies, trying hard to remember the good)

  • VeniceIT
    VeniceIT

    When I read that shunning thing on their website last summer I almost fell outta my chair laughing, YA RIGHT!!!!

    Well, Dad decided to call them up. So he talked to some brother about it and asked if that was really their site, of course it was. Then he wanted to know if the shunning had changed, ummm no the guy said. Dad said well it's not true, you know that and I know that! Well, they guy hemmmed and haaaed for a while, but finaly said. 'Well, we have to put that there for the public'. Even if it's a lie, how sick.

    Well I printed that page out and gave it to a few family members and said, why can't they talk to us, the WTS says it doesn't sever family ties??? It's right there on their one website!!! It's pretty sad when the Rank and File don't even belive the WTS' official website!!!

    Venice

  • Had Enough
    Had Enough

    Hi VeniceIT:

    So WTS "has to put that there for the public", do they. Don't they realize the public is getting more educated than ever before by sites like this?

    And the curious JWs who are just coming here to see what's going on are getting an eyefull too, since they don't know what's going on right under their noses.

    Maybe the day will come when it all blows up in the GB's face.

    Had Enough

  • professor
    professor

    I am fluent in Watchtower 'dub talk' and can translate the above statement into English:

    No! former members are not shunned. Of course we won't talk to them or engage in any activities with them because we consider them dead, but besides that, nope! not at all. We especially don't shun family members who are ex-JW's. Of course we won't eat a meal with them or allow them into our homes or anything like that, because, well, they're dead! But a phone call is tolerable as long as its short and to the point.

    Of course we're not the only ones who will be saved! There are dead people who weren't JW's and that's not their fault as long as they died before Charles T. Russell. There are also those who will be JW's in the future but just don't know it yet. They're OK too. Man! What do you think we are? elitists?

  • qwerty
    qwerty

    Thanks for your comments everyone.

    Thirdson you quoted ......
    Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth... Insight on the Scriptures(it-2-E) 1988

    A question in the written review about 12 months or more ago, asked if it was OK to Lie to an enemie of the TROOFF and said it was OK! That to tell "untruths" to someone that wasn't entitled was theocratic! Or words to that effect. They likened the account of Rahab lying to the guards as to the where about's of the servant's of God.
    How's that for saying one thing ......in the insight book and then teaching the flock the opposite!!!?

    The key word in the quote from the WT site below is the word "simply" cease to be involved in the faith...........

    I know of XJW's that are in "good standing" (perhaps still looked upon as spiritualy weak, but nice people). One is a sister who's husband (baptised) stopped coming to the meetings ages ago. He "Simply" ceased! These are such examples the WTS are talking about. Anyone that does not SIMPLY stop, but see things differant to the B,org are shunned, especialy if they turn "Apostate" or DF/DA for "conduct unbecoming of a Christian".
    ______________________________________________________________________________________________

    Do you shun former members?
    "Those who simply cease to be involved in the faith are not shunned. In compliance with the Scriptures, however, members can be expelled for serious unchristian conduct, such as stealing, drunkenness, or adultery, if they do not repent and cease such actions. Disfellowshipping does not sever family ties. Disfellowshipped members may continue to attend religious services, and if they wish, they may receive pastoral visits. They are always welcome to return to the faith ("but in the meantime will be SHUNNED by everyone in the congregation(s), except the Elders if and when they go on a shepherding call"....addition in brackets.. qwerty).—1 Corinthians 5:11-13."
    WT Public information site

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________
    qwerty.
  • qwerty
    qwerty

    !

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