by pr_capone 9 Replies latest jw friends
I have a quick question. It is my belief that it is illegal to record a conversation without the other party knowing. Is it illegal to have someone else on the line listening without that information being disclosed to you before the conversation takes place?
If it is a per-state thing... I live in Kansas. I appreciate any info that can be provided.
Thanks!
Kansas District Overbeer
In Texas you can record someone else, even over the phone, but I don't think it's admissible in court. I'm pretty sure it's a state-by-state type of law, because I remember an NBA player once doing this and almost got in trouble over it because it was in New York, where it is evidently illegal to tape someone without their permission.
This is the information I found on the web:
"Kan. Stat. Ann. § 21-4001 (1998): Unlawful eavesdropping consists of secretly listening to, recording, or amplifying private conversations or using any device to intercept a telephone or wire communication "without the consent of the person in possession or control of the facilities for such wire communication." Violations are misdemeanors. A criminal breach of privacy, punishable as a misdemeanor as well, occurs when any means of private communication is intercepted without the consent of the sender or receiver. Divulging the existence or contents of any type of private communication, whether carried out by telephone or even letter, is also a misdemeanor if the person knows the message was intercepted illegally. Kan. Stat. Ann. § 21-4002 (1998). The state's highest court has interpreted the eavesdropping and privacy statutes to sanction one-party consent for taping of conversations and in interpreting both statutes stated: "In other words, any party to a private conversation may waive the right to privacy and the non-consenting party has no Fourth Amendment or statutory right to challenge the waiver." Kansas v. Roudybush, 686 P.2d 100 (Kan. 1984)."
Hope this helps.
Thanks Big Tex man.... just looking for some information.
I ask because when an elder called me a week ago he didnt tell me that there was someone else on the line listening in. I believe that this is illegal in the state of Kansas but I am not sure. I am not very happy with this and am considering pressing charges since they refuse to just let me walk away without trying to drag me to judicial commities and the such. I believe that negative press for the JW's in a town this small would ruin their door to door activities. I am considering a law suit (snitch, be sure to run and tell them this as well) regarding this matter since they cant just let it be.
Gonna be looking into this.
Snitch - tell them that they call off the judicial commitie and let me walk away as if they never heard of me... I will drop thoughts of a law suit agains not only the congregation, but also agains the 2 particular elders involved. Even if I loose my case, I will make plenty sure that my case gets all the publicity I can possibly get in the city. You know how the media LOVES scandals involving religion. Again, tell them to drop it and I will to.
Kansas District Overbeer
Dazed!!!!!!!!!!!!! You came through for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Roses and Chocolate and Cookies for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There ya go snitch!!!!!! The law is on my side!!!!! Tell them to drop it!
Kansas District Overbeer
PR:
Double check what she said against the FEDERAL laws. The phones are Federal for several reasons.
The lines may go over state lines. This may even be the case for local calls. If the call hits a microwave or satellite link, it may go out of state no matter where the routing ends. That includes short-haul local calls.
But the phone company is ultimately regulated by the FCC: Federal Communciations Comission. If you violate the Communications Acts ('34 or later), these are NOT MISDEMEANORS!!!
That includes the DISCLOSURE!!! This is a 3rd party consideration, that keeps the privacy of intercepted communications by law.
As was pointed out, some states allow single-party recording, some don't. I've not heard this question asked about the simple expedient of a listener, though. That would seem to go to the "expectation of privacy" sitatuion that she mentioned. Kansas seems to allow, in principle, single party disclosure.
When you mix the Kansas vs. Federal thing, it could swing either way. Kansas allowing single party disclosure DOES look bad for you, but you need to eliminate the oft over-looked Federal possibilities.
This does NOT keep you from bringing action, due to civil wrongs. The efforts could be worthy of note.
In that regard, three things:
Email me.
Join the thread : We Need Your Help... NOW!!! (see U there)
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/9/49371/3.ashx
And the disclaimer:
Nothing that I write or utter is to be considered legal advice. Consult proper counsel for such matters. Further, all that I write or utter, is protected by religious freedom under the 1st Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, as the "free exercise", as well as "freedom of speech" clauses.
Mustang .
Rule of thumb, never talk to an elder (or any other JW) over the phone without realizing that another elder (or JW) is listening in. They usually are, especially if you have little contact in the past. They are trying to confirm information to be used against you. Only talk to an elder in person one on one in a neutral place.
Blondie
bttt - want to be sure the snitch sees this thread as well
Kansas District Overbeer
PR-Capone,
I ask because when an elder called me a week ago he didnt tell me that there was someone else on the line listening in. I believe that this is illegal in the state of Kansas but I am not sure.
This is a ploy designed to give the WTS the 'two witnesses' that they require to take action over your case. It is normally enough to allow them convene a Judicial Committee. It would also preclude them, dependant on what you said in the call, from having to call your anonymous informant as a witness, as what you said to them would be enough to proceed against you.
If you did not condemn yourself in your call, it may be a better solution if you were to write to Brooklyn, sending a CC to the elders demanding that they give you the right to face your accuser. They would insist that the elders agree to do this and you will then find out who this person is.
Best regards - HS
Blondie and hillary-step make good points. I had a thread some time back about the Elders here in Florida that routinely record all calls to their homes by publishers and eavesdrop on calls at the Hall. I encourage all who read this that whenever they converse over the phone to an Elder or Servant the first thing they should state is that they do not give permission for that call to be recorded or have a third party listen in on. At that point in most cases the Elder will want to question why you state this. You need not answer, just state does he understand? He will try to end the call by asking to meet you face to face. This is not necessary and continue your phone call. If he gets squirrely ask if the call is being monitored? After that you will know how you stand with this person.
The Elders have no moral dilemma with violating Ceasar's laws about this. They will use ANY means to get to the heart of your spiritual stand. It is totally admissible in their Star Chamber meetings. Maverick
