Reasoning With Your JW Family

by Perry 10 Replies latest jw friends

  • Perry
    Perry

    Reasoning With Your JW Family

    An honest review of WT literature reveals that the FD&S believe that they are Jehovah, or are at least synonomous with His authority and salvation characteristics. Here's a quick review:

    "come to Jehovah's Organization for salvation"

    "Jehovah God and his spirit directed orgagnization"

    "Displaying Loyalty To God's Organization"

    Ok, you get the point. There are thousands of quotes and WT sayings that support this view. However, I believe that most people don't start off wishing to be welded at the hip to an organization, they just wanted to be on good terms with God and live a good life. Through indoctrination, the identity emeshment of the two happens over a period of time to the point where they are no longer indistinguishable, and each term is routinely used interchanagebly with the other.

    This interchanageability is very convenient for the WT and is absolutely critical to thier phobic control over members. For example, have you ever had a conversation that went something like this?

    The organization magically turns into Jehovah:

    Q: How can the organization drag its feet in making certain changes?

    A: We must rely on Jehovah and appreciate that his ways are higher than our ways, and his thoughts are higher than our thoughts. We must wait on Jehovah.

    Jehovah magically turns into the organization:

    Q: How can Jehovah destroy 99.99% of earth's people?

    A: For over 125 years the organization has been performing a sifting work and warning people of all nations of God's coming wrath. Jehovah does not delight in destruction but wants everyone to get life.

    There are two questions that you can ask a JW family member that will help to separate the two.

    1. Is there anything that Jehovah could do that would make you leave him? Of course they will say no. Jehovah is perfect.

    Now here's the rub:

    2. Is there anything that the organization could do that would make you stop going to the meetings?

    If they say no:

    It is clear that they are worshipping the WT and assuming its infallibility. They might be able to see this if you compare their answer to the answers from followers of the Reverand Mooon, or the Nazi devotion to Hitler. Of course they will say that the FD&S aren't murderers or destroyers of families like a cult. At this point, they have declared what they are not. They must then support this statement. So you simply ask them hypothetically of course, if the WT leadership were murders or destructive cult leaders would they then leave them? After a great deal of resistance they will be forced to say yes. Then you simply tell them that you have evidence of murder, and lies. Then challenge them. Ask," How different is it from NAZI Germany if evidence is all around and it is simply ignorerd.

    If they say yes:

    Then, you could ask them, "How different is it from NAZI Germany if evidence is all around and it is simply ignorerd."

    Of course, a real conversation will try to get off course and sagway into obivilion if not continually redirected back on topic. And, other questions will no doubt become necessary. But, I believe the above line of argument could be very effective to get some to thinking about their ethics....at least after they have left the converstion. Any honest hearted person must justify how they are different than Hitlers NAZI's or cult followers.

    If any conversation with a JW is to yield anything of value, the enmeshment of identities must be first separated. Without that, you are simply encouraging them to reject God in their mind.

    Edited by - Perry on 3 November 2002 9:14:35

    Edited by - Perry on 3 November 2002 9:16:4

    Edited by - Perry on 3 November 2002 9:29:53

  • DJ
    DJ

    Hi Perry,

    Of course, a real conversation will try to get off course and sagway into obivilion if not continually redirected back on topic. And, other questions will no doubt become necessary

    I would agree with your reasoning with the minor exception that my family anyway.......would take the whole hypothetical and turn it into a persecution thing. It would probably go something like this...."Oh, now we're being compared to the Nazi's!!!" My family has this perssecutory paranoia that erases all of their logic combined with a stubborn Sicilian righteousness. This would most likely blow up in my face and cause me to be shunned all over again.

    Have you had the chance to try this out with your family? Maybe they have some reasoning capabilities left. My family has been hoodwinked. I'm at the point of only offering them love and refuse anything that could possibly lead into an argument. As much as I want them out of this cult, I had to give up all attempts at trying to rescue them from their bondage. I'd love to know how this worked for you. Maybe all jw's aren't as stubborn as mine............? Love to you, Dj

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    enjoyed your post Perry.

    I think the nazi comparison will result in the response DJ has commented on. Perhaps a better comparison would be to use ancient Isreal, Jews of Jesus' day, 1st century Christianity, and "apostasy" in the JW organization's early "modern history" to show corruption is possible and entirely likely considering the warnings in the scriptures stating this would happen.

    Path

  • Dismembered
    Dismembered

    Reasoning With Your JW Family

    I didn't realize there was any.

  • Francois
    Francois

    Reasoning with your JW family? Can't be done.

    JW's belong to a cult. Belonging to a cult isn't a reasoned response to life. Belonging to a cult is an emotional phenomena. You cannot reason with an emotionally-motivated person.

    Any questions?

    francois

  • animal
    animal

    Shun the Shunners.

    Animal

  • Perry
    Perry

    I haven't used this line of reasoning with my family because the opportunity hasn' t presented itself. If and when it does....I will use it. Regadless of whether or not it will have an effect, it is the truth.

    While I think going out of our way to help the shunners is fruitless, where any opportunity presents itself, I like to expose falsehood. Whether I like it or not, I feel it is my responsibility. It just makes my conscience feel better.... thats all I guess.

    The Jw's are so used to going unchallenged that they are brazen in their self-righteousness. I'd like to see the whole world educated enough to challenge every witnesses' world view and allegiance.

    I appreciated everyone's comments. I really agree with all of them.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Perry, I came to my decision over time and observation. As they say, actions speak louder than words. The actions of JWs was deafening. I say keep watch for a crack and widen the crack gently with occasional questions or gentle observations then leave it. Let it settle and take root and grow.

    Blondie

  • minimus
    minimus

    Perry, I liked your post. The barriers are so great, though. I'm finding success by continuing to expose issues or statements that I know we all can agree upon. For example, for thosethat always say that we must do more, I will ask, "Do you think Jehovah really wants you to do so much that it results in your continual lack of joy?" It's working, little by little.

  • nilfun
    nilfun

    Perry, I really enjoy reading your posts...but I know that my mom
    will stop listening if I compare her god (WT) with the Nazis.

    I question the JW religion with my mom... there may be something, a crack
    in the armor of a JW that an XJW can work on...that's what I do
    with her, just a little bit at a time...

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