BMJ debate nearing conclusion

by Lee Elder 4 Replies latest jw friends

  • Lee Elder
    Lee Elder

    I believe the BMJ debate on the blood issue is nearing an
    end. What will probably be my last post was added to the
    electronic responses this morning. I'm actually a bit
    surprised that they published it because I went after
    Furuli in a not so subtle way. Apparently Sam was correct -
    the Brits like some humor in their debates. Here's the post:

    I must tip my hat to Rolf Furuli for he has done a great service for all dissident Jehovah's Witnesses(JWs) who conscientiously reject the Watchtower Society (WTS) blood policy.

    By coming into a public forum and failing to address the core issues raised by dissident JWs, Furuli has demonstrated at least three things:

    1. Neither Furuli nor the WTS can answer the simple questions we have raised.
    2. It is fitting and proper for Jehovah's Witnesses to discuss this policy outside of the organization.
    3. Physicians who ask JWs simple questions about the policy will find they are stumped and may reevaluate their position.

    Furuli has helped create a historical record that will serve the Associated Jehovah's Witnesses for Reform on Blood (AJWRB) very well since the record clearly shows that even very experienced JW elders who are HLC (Hospital Liaison Committee) members (like Furuli) cannot answer simple questions about a policy they expect other JWs to die for if necessary.

    What great irony is to be found when Furuli chides Muramoto by saying: "…he (Muramoto) believes in the unverified claims of a small group of dissenters (who will not even disclose their identity), claims which for the most part are rejected as exaggerated or false by experienced witnesses as myself."

    Yes, claims which Furuli refuses to address despite being asked to do so on at least four occasions. Where has Furuli shown that claims made by AJWRB are false? Where is the logical basis for calling our claims "exaggerated?" Once again we're treated to another round of Furuli's logical fallacies.

    I dare say that Furuli's lack of response to the issues will answer any remaining questions in the minds of physicians regarding the lack of autonomy of their JW patients. With Furuli and the WTS, it's their way or the highway.

    Why should Furuli bother with something incidental like respect for the conscience of the individual or medical confidentiality? Pesky JWs who ask too many questions before they let their child bleed to death can just leave as far as Furuli is concerned. Actually, he would really prefer that they just identify themselves so that he can disfellowship them for not agreeing with him about what blood (haima) is this week. Lest we forget, he may once again change his mind next week and six million JWs will have to fall in line with the latest definition or face shunning and destruction by God.

    Thank you Rolf Furuli - I nominate you for AJWRB "reformer of the year" for perfectly demonstrating how totally bizarre and undefensible the WTS blood policies have come to be.

    Link to BMJ article and electronic responses:

    http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/322/7277/37

  • jschwehm
    jschwehm

    Hi Lee Elder-

    I started reading the posts of Mr. Furuli and I was not impressed and I agree with your statements. His posts are a good example of someone trying to defend the indefensible.

    Jeff S.

  • Fredhall
    Fredhall

    And Lee Elder and Dr. Frankenstein made candy asses out of themselves too.

  • JanH
    JanH

    Good job LE,

    Furuli is an excellent example of a stuffed shirt with no substance, as his messages on this topic amply demonstrates.

    He loves sitting at the top of the tables with "worldly wisdom", but he loves even more to be seen as a big shot inside the JW community. Among Norwegian JWs he enjoys immense respect, and they often point to him as an example of an educated person who still believes JW doctrines.

    As they say, in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.

    Anong JWs, it is rather the truth that in the land of the blind, the man with the only walking stick is king, even when it is broken.

    - Jan

  • MacHislopp
    MacHislopp

    Hello Lee Elder,

    I wish to tell you that I do agree with your last post:

    1. Neither Furuli nor the WTS can answer the simple questions we have raised.

    2. It is fitting and proper for Jehovah's Witnesses to discuss this policy outside of the organization.

    3. Physicians who ask JWs simple questions about the policy will find they are stumped and may reevaluate their position.

    *…the record clearly shows that even very experienced JW elders who are HLC (Hospital Liaison Committee) members (like Furuli) cannot answer simple questions about a policy they expect other JWs to die for if necessary. " …..(very, very true)!

    *Where has Furuli shown that claims made by AJWRB are false?
    Where is the logical basis for calling our claims "exaggerated?"
    Once again we're treated to another round of Furuli's logical fallacies."

    *I dare say that Furuli's lack of response to the issues will answer any remaining questions in the minds of physicians regarding the lack of autonomy of their JW patients. With Furuli and the WTS, it's their way or the highway. "

    *…he would really prefer that they just identify themselves so that he can disfellowship them for not agreeing with him about what blood (haima) is this week. Lest we forget, he may once again change his mind next week and six million JWs will have to fall in line with the latest definition or face shunning and destruction by God."

    Excellent comments, by the way I have downloaded the all debate , and I'm going through
    very page, since I do really believe that the vast majority of b&s , are not at all * informed
    the way they should, and they constantly puzzled by the "new light" and changes from the
    WTS on the "blood issue" . A final word from me: " Keep up with the excellent work"
    you and the others with you…and a great, great THANK YOU * to Dr. Muramoto.

    Agape, J.C.MacHislopp

    PS. Thanks to JanH…I do like your illustration!

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