Elder John Doe-Able to handle anything!

by D8TA 9 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  D8TA

  (start the D8TA ironic, sarcasm machine)

  Yep...Elder John Doe, you know him, we ALL know him.

  In my lifetime I would have to say I know about ooooh 30 some odd elders, and a dozen CO's and maybe 1, 2, DO's. And MS's...can't even put a count on those.

  And I reflect back, and look presently, as to WHO these people are.
  Now, I know this isn't EVERY SINGLE "elders" story, but from MY EXPERIENCE...these are the ONE's I knew:

  A Car Machanic
  A Machinist
  An insurance salesman
  A sports photographer
  A person who went "job to job"
  A home business owner
  A roofer
  A construction worker
  A drywaller
  A painter
  A person on disability payments
  A carpenter
  A ...well, let's say it goes on.

  Is there something wrong with these professions? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Good decent work...honest (for most) work, as one would say.

  Now, from the "elders" I know I give 27 out of 30 with only Highschool or Trade School education, 3 with nothing topping an A.A. degree.

  These are people who are told by the Governing Body, that with a NWT in hand...they can handle pretty much any crisis. Oh, and correspondence with WTBTS via phone and mail.

  Yep...these are people I would want to go too, when the crap hits the fan in my life. For somehow, they are imparted with some kind of "speacial" wisdom.

  I'm sure they are fully capable of handeling:

  Rape
  Pedophilia
  Murder
  Health
  Life and Death issues...

  Why? Because...hey...ALL the answers are in the Bible...and oh, correspondce via phone and/or mail with WTBTS.

  I'm sure glad that John Doe Elder-Car Machanic, has the vast experience,knowledge, and wisdom to handle the essential needs in one's life. Espeacially when a child's safety and well being is in concern. I'm sure glad, that gee, COMMON SENSE is the rule to live by...and not the years of training a Medical Doctor, Psycologist, or Law Enforcement official has to help me with my situation.

  Silly me, what have I been thinking all these years.

  (end sarcasm)

  D8TA
• 

  Guest 77

  Can any smart ass person tell me what school or university teaches 'common sense?' there is NONE, either you have or don't, the school of hard knocks will teach you at the expense of your life. Live and learn is not the proper way, learn and live is.

  Young men are apppointed over the spiritual lives of others. If and when they do make mistakes (which they do) can we blame it on Jehovah's Spirit? If we do, then isn't this a reflection on the Creator and his Spirit? The scriptures say, 'The Rock perfect is his activity' how does a sane person make sense of it's application when it comes to persistent wrong doing? Isn't Jehovah's Spirit suppose to 'reveal' corruptness within the congregation by means of withholding blessings so the congregation can be kept 'spiritually clean? Either the Spirit is sleeping or slow on the job when it comes revealing pedophilia makes me ask questions. If ( and apparently so) some pedophile elders have had their positions for years and years, how does one make sense and come to explain such conditions? Please do not answer by saying, oh, Jehovah will weed it out in due time. It doesn't make sense. I'm a problem solver on the construction site job, nothing is left to chance in my trade because lives are at stake. Isn't the spiritual lives of friends always at stake? How can Jehovah allow such conditions to drag on for years (pedophilia & disfellowshipping)to persisit in his spiritual paradise? Is Jehovah using the accused/labeled apostates to have his house cleaned? Why not? Didn't he use foreign entities to correct his people of their ways? Does the cry of correction 'within' the organization make you an apostate? Apparently so. Friends are needlessly being punished for 'requesting' a clean organization, is there something wrong with this picture?

  No, young elders do not fit the bill, as I had said to the org. in my letters, these elders lack experience, experience, experience, they cause more problems than solve them. My observations/comments comes from personal experiences.

  Guest 77
• 

  Sirona

  Good Point D8TA and Guest77,

  I know of one local elder who is 30. All through his life he's had communication problems on a 1 to 1 level and has been cushioned his entire life by his doting, rich mother. Are you telling me that people should go to him for advice? I don't think so, but after all, he does good talks and he goes out in ministry all the time...

  I know of an elder who was physically abusing his wife and 2 children for years.

  I think that the crux of the matter is that the society put these men in a position that they shouldn't be in. They are not simply "priests" they are given more status than that. In mainstream churches, the priests may give some advice, but mainly they guide and let people make their own decisions. Elders simply get out the society's most recent rag on the issue and say "do that". E.g. I'll never forget crisis of conscience where the lady wrote to the GB about her husband being discovered having sex with another man...the GB said it wasn't fornication and therefore she wasn't allowed a divorce. !!!!! Then the thought was changed a couple of years later but obviously too late for her! (she had to endure her hubby shagging a man freely for a couple of years and she was told by the local elders to 'stay with him')

  UNBELIEVABLE!

  Sirona

  ** http://www.religioustolerance.org **
• 

  TweetieBird

  This is such a sore spot with me as I have seen so many brothers (if you want to call them that) appointed to the position of elder that didn't have a clue. And to say that they were appointed by Holy Spirit is really a joke.

  I know a guy that was made a MS and then an elder (a couple of years later) that was a pathalogical liar, a thief and used the F-word on an hourly basis. Yeah, I really want this guy sitting on my committee! He's about as qualified to give spiritual guidance as my dog, actually I think my dog would be better equipped.

  He's but one of many assholes that have been appointed to the eldership role around here. Sirona is right, all one has to do to be appointed MS or elder is get at least 10 hours in field service (at least record it on time slip, as I know many that rarely went in service,), be at every meeting, answer at said meetings, and schmooze the elders. It helps if you throw good parties when you are campaigning for said position.

  There was another elder in this same congregation that had a reputation for "loving" on all the young (12-15 year range) sisters. They were always sitting on his lap and hugging on him. He eventually moved away after some nasty rumors started floating around about he and a young sister. Hmmmm!

  I could write a book about all that I have observed just in this little stinky town I'm in.

  But, of course, I have been admonished over and over again to "Wait on Jehovah." It's funny how the R&F have to wait on Jehovah while the elders MUST meet with someone quickly over some small matter like going to a sporting event when they should have been at the meeting or going to an R-rated movie, etc.

  Oh, don't get me started! Oops, too late! It is UNBELIEVABLE!
• 

  blondie

  DBT8

  Medical Doctor, Psycologist, or Law Enforcement official

  Just a comment from someone who has worked in law enforcement and the court system, not just any medical doctor, psychologist or law enforcement personnel are qualified to handle child abuse cases. But most are trained to recognize their limitations and to wait and refer the situation to those who receive extra special training in this area. They do not want to jeopardize the successful prosecution of the perpetrator by being presumptuous. There still are people in these areas that do "throw a monkey wrench" in the process by not recognizing their limited abilities.

  The dynamics that move coverups of child sexual abuse cases are found in all groups and communities. Some want to protect the perpetrator (their friend, relative, business associate) because they personally have something to lose, others feel mistakenly that they will protect the victim from public shame (of course the victim suffers more by it being covered up in the long run). Many people have stereotypical views of what a child abuser looks like and very few real pedophiles fit that view.

  In the world at large, the response of individuals and groups to sexual child abuse is not too hard to track. It repeats over and over the same general path of denial, denial, denial.

  But it is not easy to fight back. It isn't until your own child, niece, nephew, grandchild, or a close friend's is molested that you find out what you are made of. By protecting that child, you come up against a very strong denial system. I can guarantee that no matter the individual or group, you risk total rejection even when the facts come out and are substantiated beyond doubt. So I applaud Bill, Barbara, and the Pandelos for taking a road they knew would end in their rejection for the sake of children.

  In the end for the child, the worst part is the denial by the perpetrator, the perpetrator's lack of real remorse, and the realization the the perpetrator will probably strike again. If the perpetrator admitted all and his responsibility, showed real remorse by cooperating fully in finding other children they have hurt to apologize, and worked with the courts and the congregation to minimize the chance of their re-offending, then the child will have a real chance to heal and move on. Healing is still possible but it may take longer.
• 

  DanTheMan

  I never had even the slightest desire to be an elder or an MS.

  The thing you don't realize in the beginning, when you are being love-bombed, and everything is so new and exciting, is that pretty soon the pressure is going to come. If you are a male dub who has been baptized for any length of time, and you aren't "reaching out", then you are pretty much dead weight to them. What a load of bull.
• 

  crawdad2

  hi tweetie,

  i know what you mean about appointing liars.....i just couldn't believe my eyes in my cong..........the appointments were given to complete liars who didn't have any morals.........all they had to do was kiss up.

  and then when they sit on a committe meeting making decisions, there was a "infuence there"............they always seemed to come up with a wicked approach, a bent answer for everything.......even when the "truth" was apparent!.......they would come to a completely sick conclusion.
• 

  RedhorseWoman

  JWs have always considered it a matter of pride that their elders did not have to go to a seminary and become a paid professional. THEIR elders were somehow more spiritual because they performed their duties out of "love" for Jehovah and the brothers.

  Oddly enough, it always seemed to me that most of the elders were in it for the power it gave them. Helping others and showing love were not particularly high on their agendas.

  Even as an active JW, I was concerned about the wisdom of entrusting very complex moral and emotional issues to men who had absolutely NO training in psychology. How could they recognize a serious problem that might result in someone's death if not dealt with properly?

  Time after time I observed people silently suffering and blaming themselves for some sort of lack on their parts when the elders' counsel and suggestions did not work.

  There are many elders who ARE concerned about others, and these are the ones who, unfortunately, burn out and feel the need to step down before the pressure kills them. I knew one such man while I was a JW. He was truly a spiritual person, and he genuinely cared about others. However, he simply didn't have the resources to deal with the multitude of problems that were brought to him.

  The whole elder arrangement is not only unfair to those seeking aid, but also to those elders who really DO want to do a good job.
• 

  John Doe

  Interesting thread. . .
• 

  BizzyBee

  The hallmark of any sect worth its salt is to convince its members that all the normal rules (including commonsense) apply to everyone else, every other religion, every sect or creed - BUT THEM. No sect (or most religions) stand up under the scrutiny of what is provable or self-evident or even logical. The Jehovah's Witness sect is no different and in fact, are text-book examples of the phenomenon of the willing gullibility of huge numbers of people who are roped into a nonsensical shell game because of their desire to believe in a fairy story where they are the fairy princess.

  And I only say this because the facts speak for themselves - the uneducated, the disenfranchised, the marginalized - are the most vulnerable to this type of manipulative victimization, with all due respect toward those who work hard at menial jobs to support themselves and their families. I think that they are most vulnerable on three counts: (1) they are not educated in core disciplines (history, biology, math, literature, philosophy, science) and critical thinking skills and therefore are prey to uninformed and manipulative religious concepts, (2) being a JW affords them the avenue for potentially being "a big frog in a small pond," through eldership, field service and opportunities for "leadership," and (3) they, as the least monetarily rewarded of society, have a vested interest in seeing the balance of power shift, even through the extreme scenario of the end of the world - Armageddon.