Are JW Elders legally: CLERGY?

by Amazing 8 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Amazing

  According to common law dictionaries, here is one definition provided by Bouvier's:

  CLERGY. All who are attached to the ecclesiastical ministry are called the clergy; a clergyman is therefore an ecclesiastical minister.

  2. Clergymen were exempted by the emperor Constantine from all civil burdens. Baronius ad ann. 319, 30. Lord Coke says, 2 Inst. 3, ecclesiastical persons have more and greater liberties than other of the king's subjects, wherein to set down all, would take up a whole volume of itself.

  3. In the United States the clergy is not established by law, but each congregation or church may choose its own clergyman.

  What has the Watchtower chosen for its Church Government?:

  1. The Watchtower Society is a hierarchical church government, where men who become local church Elders are trained, qualified, and appointed only by the Watchtower Society (or more recently the newly created Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, Inc. which is also governed and directed by the Watchtower Society and its Governing Body).

  2. Evidence of the Watchtower Society's ability to override the local Elders, thus establishing its hierarchical church government authority is the written notification to those JWs, such as Bill Bowen, to appear before a local Judicial Committee.

  3. The Watchtower Society theological teachings are that ALL Jehovah's Witnesses are ”Ordained Ministers”, and as such, this make ALL Jehovah's Witnesses obligated, by common definition, members of its Clergy, and obligated to report child abuse in those States where mandated. (Also, as Bill Bowen pointed out, the United States Code requires parents in ALL 50 States to report child abuse. Therefore, as parents, members of the Jehovah's Witness religion MUST report the same as any other citizen of the United States.

  4. It is Watchtower teaching and policy that their appointed Elders who serve local congregations perform customary Ministerial acts, such as wedding services, funeral services, CONFESSIONAL services, as well as setting up Judicial Committees, directing and organizing local congregations, and serving as its authority. Therefore, the duties of Elders are consistent with those ministerial acts that any Clergy-person would perform in any other religion ... and as ORDAINED MINISTERS APPOINTED BY THE SOCIETY under its religious ordinances, they are in every sense of the word CLERGY.

  Can the Society beat this in court? I don't know, but I think they would have a hard time to convince a Judge or Jury that its appointed Elders, as Ordained Ministers, are not its Clergy.

  What about the Court of Public Opinion? If and when the Dateline program airs, the Watchtower Society and its subsidiary, the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses and their Clergy, the Watchtower appointed Elder class, will come across very pathetic, weak and dishonorable if their excuse for not reporting child molesters is because of some internal technical definitions that parse phrases to somehow exempt Elders from being viewed as CLERGY.
• 

  metatron

  How do they get to pick and chose when they're clergy
  and when they're not?

  Are elders clergy when they protect child molesters by
  asserting clerical privilege?

  Is the organization a hierarchy in Kingdom Hall ownership
  cases like Bonham, Texas?

  Is a disfellowshipped person treated as df'd in every
  congregation of JW's - with records sent to the Society
  to prove it? - doesn't that prove central control?

  I look forward to some smart attorney hacking thru all
  the Society's legal deceptions. If they insist on treating
  people the way they have, then they need to be held responsible
  for their actions.

  metatron
• 

  RunningMan

  When it suits their purposes, the Society claims that they have clergy. When it does not suit their purposes, they claim they have no clergy.

  I suspect that in this case, their own previous claims will come back to haunt them.

  As well, courts tend to look at the substance of the situation, not the label. Considering the duties and responsibilities of the elders, they are undoubtedly filling the same role as the clergy of other churches, with the possible distinction that they could be classified as lay clergy.

  If this is the technicality on which they choose to hang their hats, then they are indeed "week and pathetic".
• 

  Nathan Natas

  I agree with RunningMan; they will claim whatever suits them at the time. It wasn't that long ago that the WTS PR dept. described local elders as "untrained volunteers," remember?
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  dungbeetle

  Somebody explain this to me:

  Elders are clergy and are not allowed to repeat anything outside of the confessional (without a release from the penitent)

  But they ARE allowed to repeat it to two other elders, or even eight other elders; to a circuit overseer; to a district overseer; in a letter written to New York; in a written selaed letter in the congregation's file; in a letter of introduction when you change congregations. (see 'Pay Attention and Organized books).

  DOES NOT THIS TOTALLY SET THEM APART FROM THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, who is not allowed to repeat confessions AT ALL? This sets them apart as well as sending convicted sexual assaulters to people's doors.

  Thoughts please!!!
• 

  LittleToe

  In Britain I believe that all Elders are put on the list of religious ministers. This is reflected in the fact that Elders can sign blood Cards as "Minister", whereas other publushers cannot.

  In Scotland they can ask to fill in an additional form to permit them to conduct weddings. I understand that this is just a formality, and had been considering it, myself, before I came to the conclusion that I would be leaving the borg.
• 

  JeffT

  I don't have my refernce books in front of me, I will try to get an exact quote tonight. They used to say that one of the things that marked them as the true religion was that they had no distinction between clergy and laity.

  I think those statements will come back to haunt them.
• 

  dungbeetle

  I think they claim they have no PAID clergy,

  And that their elders have no titles (which never made sense to me).
• 

  Amazing

  Whatever claims or slippery distinctions the Society might try to make, they cannot escape the fact that their church government is a central hierarchy, where the Elders are in fact, Clergy-persons. Any lawyer with half his brain tied behind his back could argue the case using the Society's own literature, their Elders are Clergy in every sense of the word. They are in a position of fiduciary trust, and any reasonable Court will hold JW Elders to a higher standard ...

  But, even if all else fails ... the Court of Public Opinion will do far more to pressure the JWs to either change, or face the financial and maybe legal demise of their religion.

  The Arch Diocese in Chicago was in the middle of making financial settlements when it realized it was running out of money ... the word BANKRUPTCY comes to mind! If the Roman Catholic Church can get hit this hard, then a small little sect like the Jehovah's Witnesses can likewise end up going into Bankruptcy.