Last night's bookstudy / Questions about 1919

by Leander 19 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Leander

  Last night's bookstudy again focused on the date of 1919 and how it was proof that God's favor was directed towards the bible students. This week the WTS compared themselves to the Jews when they were released from Babylon. Basically they talked about how the Jews were discplined by Jehovah when Babylon destroyed Jerusalem and took them hostage. After a certain period of years Jehovah's favor was unmistakably shown to be with the Jews when they were released from Babylon, this was notable because Babylonians normally never release their prisoners.

  Ok so now that the scene is set, the WTS begins to explain how they are the modern-day Jews with God's favor. They stated that when the governing body was arrested and imprisoned that this was Jehovah's way of discplining the bible students and when they were released this was unmistakebly Jehovah showing favor on the bible students. They further claim that Jehovah was with them because of the rapid increase they experienced shortly after the governing body's release from prison.

  So that was basically the gist of the study last night, but I'm really curious about several things.

  1. What were the charges brought against the bible students?

  2. Were these charges really instigated by other religions?

  3. Did Woodrow Wilson have a hand in the release of the bible students? (one of the sisters made the comment that the President intervened in behalf of the bible students, another comment was made that the governing body was given consecutive life term sentences)

  4. How exactly was it that the bible students were released? Did'nt it have something to do with WT president admitting to some wrong he had committed?

  5. If Jehovah was cleansing the bible students during that time, how is it possible that after 1919 they continued to make false predictions and teach things not of the bible?

  6. Is there a way to dig up what actually took place at those trials?

  This would be excellent proof to show JWs the real truth about the relgion
• 

  Mister Biggs

  Also:
  7) What had they done that was so bad that God needed to punish them?

  8) Aren't the things that they've taught/done to mislead/harm people far worse after 1919 than before 1919?
• 

  larc

  Leander,

  Amazing has the transcript of the trial. He is in the best position to answer your questions. As I recall, Rutherford and a few others were sentenced to Federal prison because of the anti-government attack in their latest book. I would rather not add much more because I am not clear on the details.

  I will comment on one thing, their claim of growth. They did grow until 1925, but their failed prophecy in that year caused a steep decline. Their numbers did not get back to the 1925 level until 1935, a full ten years after failed prophecy. They really did not have strong growth under Rutherford. It wasn't until Knorr introduced sales training methods, that they started to grow rapidly in the 1940's.
• 

  You Know

  After the turbulent events of WWI, going into the Great Depression, followed by WWII, and then the Cold War, it seemed as if the prophecies applied to us back then. But, the farther removed we become from that time, and in view of the developments within the organization, namely corruption and error, it is evident that Jehovah's prophecies of restoration were not fulfilled upon us back then, as we now mistakenly imagine. Jesus once told his apostles that he had many things yet to tell them but that they simply couldn't bear the truth at that time. But, Jesus assured them that eventually his disciples would be guided into all of the truth. Paul showed in 1 Corinthians that Christians wouldn't have the whole picture until Christ arrived for the judgment.

  What that means then is that we are facing the antitypical captivity and subsequent restoration in the future. That will be the ultimate test of our faith before Jehovah gives the earth to the meek ones. It is becoming more apparent by the day why Jehovah is going to discipline us and how it is going to come about. The Watchtower's applying all of those prophecies to 1919 merely served to seal up the truth until such time as Jehovah is ready for the apocolypse---the unveiling. / You Know
• 

  Room 215

  Leander,

  If you strip away all of the misinformation, ambiguity and obfuscation to get at what it actually was that landed them in the Atlanta penitentiary, it seems to boil down to a charge of ``incitement to sedition'' or something like that, with respect to several statments made in The Finished Mystery.

  It also seems that these courageous, uncompromising Christians expedited their release by removing the offending pages in subsequent editions of the book. Sort of looks like knuckling under to the Wild Beast, doesn't it?

  A ``cleansing'' in 1919? Ludicrous. The JWs celebrated Christmas, even at Bethel, retained the cross (along with a crown) as a logo on the Watchtower, espoused Zionism and virtually ignored The Divine Name until the late twenties/early thirties.

  Also, they can't seem to decide whether they were punished for their loyalty or that the jailing happened God when visited his displeasure on them because they were tainted with false religion.
• 

  larc

  You Know,

  Your last paragraph is in direct contradiction to JW teachings, so I have a couple of questions. Have you submited your interpretation in writing to Bethel? Do you think they will change their teaching on this subject in line with your belief?
• 

  You Know

  Have you submited your interpretation in writing to Bethel?

  Hundreds of pages over the years.

  Do you think they will change their teaching on this subject in line with your belief

  No. Not until the tribulation commences. Then everything changes. The first become last and the last become first and what is high becomes low and all sorts of earth-shaking judgments. / You know
• 

  Bang

  it seemed as if the prophecies applied to us back then

  You know, it seems that your crew has been looking at the wrong scriptures for things that apply, "Blessed are you.....when they say all kinds of evil against you falsely for my sake.

  Make sure they keep those blessings coming now, You know.
  
  Bang
• 

  bjc2012

  You Know,

  You wrote:

  What that means then is that we are facing the antitypical captivity and subsequent restoration in the future. That will be the ultimate test of our faith before Jehovah gives the earth to the meek ones. The Watchtower's applying all of those prophecies to 1919 merely served to seal up the truth

  
  If you believe what you just wrote, then you have no business calling anyone an apostate. And the WTS has no right to disfellowship anyone for apostasy if as you stated 'truth has been sealed up.' Their main reason for putting someone out is that that individual has deviated from truth, yet you say they do not have truth, all truth.
  
  I can further state, based on what you wrote, that we are not living in the time of the end. Daniel 12:4 states: "...seal up the books until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant." I believe this means that in the 'time of the end' truth would become available to 'many.' You state that this has not happened yet; that it is in the future.

  The Watchtower's applying all of those prophecies to 1919 merely served to seal up the truth until such time as Jehovah is ready for the apocolypse---the unveiling.

  And you have stated the exact reason why no human can be compeled to accept everything the WTS teaches. They have been doing nothing but guessing about the meaning of prophesy for the past 120 years. And they have the audacity to disfellowship individuals who disagree with their guesses. Incidentally, the WTS cannot 'seal up truth' as this was done by Jehovah. They simply misinterpret and misapply prophesy.

  It is becoming more apparent by the day why Jehovah is going to discipline us and how it is going to come about.

  Well, you are finally coming around to seeing this issue in the proper light. Back in June, 2001 in one of your 'Apostate Doom' threads, I stated to you that JWs would be disciplined by Jehovah and you poo pawed the idea saying 'they would only be caught up in the fracas that was occurring for the world.' I see you are also coming around to accepting that the Dateline show will have some importance in the fulfillment of Ezekiel 36 upon JWs, as I stated to you in that same thread (listed below).

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=6509&site=3&page=4

  You are a bit slow on the 'uptake' aren't you?

  Should Leander conclude from your comments that he is wasting his time going to the book study as the Isaiah book needs to be trashed?

  bjc
• 

  larc

  You Know,

  I am curious. What kind of respose do you get when you submit material to them? Also, why do you think that they don't reprove you for your conclusions? As I recall, Carl Olof Jonsson was disfellowshipped for his research, which he had submited to Bethel. I wonder why your case is treated differently.