If you believe it, is it still a lie?

thinker

I know of an active JW who lies. The thing is, this person probably believes what they're saying is true. They are basically lying to themselves first, then repeating it to my wife and me.
So, what do you think? If you believe it, is it still a lie?

Nathan Natas

Truth is congruent with reality.

It does not depend upon "belief" to be true.

Lies are incongruent with reality.

Believing them does not make them true.

Moxy

the following post is a lie

Moxy

the preceding post is the truth

JanH

In common usage, we distinguish between unintentionally and intentionally communicating an untruth. Thus, someone saying something the honestly believe is true, but which isn't, do not lie. The claim itself can be "a lie", even though many of those who say it are not liars, just mislead.

Moxy,

That is one variant of St Paul's self-contradiction (paraphrased) 'all cretans are liars, as a cretan said.'

- Jan
--
The believer is happy. The doubter is wise.

thinker

Jan H,
So far I'm in agreement with you. I don't feel like I've been lied to; I just feel sorry for the WT's victim. This person has adopted a way of thinking that changes the truth of everything into whatever is needed to get by. Just like the Org. has done for so long.

Moxy

lol jan, i *never* noticed that.

FreePeace

An interesting statement I recently read is:

"A belief is something you don't know."

I gave that statement a lot of thought. A fact is something you know. A belief is simply that, and it may or may not be true.

Food for thought.

FreePeace
"The World is my country, and to do good, my religion." --Thomas Paine
TruthQuest: http://beam.to/truthquest
Who Am I? -How to Reinvent Yourself After Leaving the WTS

expatbrit

<------Waiting for all the Christinanes to start babbling that they "know" Jesus loves us and wants us to be saved.

Expatbrit

david_10

When Pontius Pilate was questioning Jesus just before he handed him over to the mob,he asked the question: "What is truth?" I always wondered why he would ask this. Why was it so important that John(or whoever wrote "John") would include it in his narrative. "Truth",of course, is cut and dried and does not stray into the gray area. Or so I thought when I was in the "Truth". Since I have left the Organization, my thinking has metamorphosed (how do you like that word?) so much that I now see things much differently than I used to,and I think I know what Pilate meant when he asked: "What is truth?" The cynical ruler well knew that the "truth" is anything you want to believe, regardless of how unsound it might be or even how ridiculous it is. I myself have noticed that the human capacity for self-deception is boundless. In answer to your question,Thinker,I don't think there is an answer. But I feel like your friend is probably a pathological liar who, of course, only tells the truth.

David

If you believe it, is it still a lie?

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