WT Advance Directive - Just the Facts

by Lee Elder 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • Lee Elder
    Lee Elder

    WT Advance Directive

    There is substantial discussion of this topic in a previous thread that contains the opinions, some informed - some not, regarding the validity of the directive. I believe that a useful place to begin is by reviewing the medical literature.

    The Western Journal of Medicine published an article that devotes an entire section to this topic. Follow the link below:

    http://www.ajwrb.org/wjm/wjm.htm

    and scroll down to the section:

    “Ethical and legal issues of the blood card and informed refusal”

    AJWRB has extensive resources available on this topic. The link below will give you a list for your research.

    http://www.google.com/custom?q=advance+directive&sa=Google+Search&cof=GIMP%3ABlack%3BT%3ABlack%3BLW%3A400%3BALC%3ARed%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fajwrb.org%2Fimages%2Fheaderblck.gif%3BGFNT%3Agrey%3BLC%3ABlue%3BLH%3A100%3BBGC%3AWhite%3BAH%3Acenter%3BVLC%3A%231C1200%3BAWFID%3Aabbb452c1f8c4c66%3B&domains=www.ajwrb.org&sitesearch=www.ajwrb.org

    If you have a problem reaching this page, go to the search engine on our main page and search the site using the words: advance directive.

    Lee

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Thanks Lee.

    hawk

  • anewperson
    anewperson

    Whether JWs cheerfully or reluctantly sign the anti-blood transfusion cards in the background always hovers the fact that if they take a transfusion and then don't say they are sorry they did, then they are disfellowshipped. This is duress. A legal document signed under duress is invalid insofar as judges and medical personnel are concerned. However those professionals are mostly unaware of the duress factor.

    Your AJWRB.org website hangs there in cyberspace doing a fine job for those who happen to find it there, but out in the real world are doctors and judges who do not know about the disfellowshipment duress and therefore let JWs die! Why don't you phone and write the judges and doctors? We have heard nothing... N-O-T-H-I-N-G... from Wayne Rogers the President of the AJWRB in ages now.

    How long is Wayne's term? Is it for life or what? If it is about to expire kick him out for inaction. If it is for life and he keeps trying to choke real-world actions to death by inactivity as he has so far, then start a new anti-Watchtower blood policy website or whatever it takes and do it right this time.

    Blood is gushing, Lee. Your posting here once in a while is not true leadership. Lead or get your ownself out of the way. I appreciate what you did do, e.g. the journal articles, but since then you have sat on you hind-end. Move it.

  • Sam Beli
    Sam Beli

    Dear A,

    Where are your manners? Your attack on Lee is uncalled for. He is handling a huge load of responsibilities and has done a noble job in putting up a web site that is unparalleled on the JW blood issue. He has recruited numerous physicians, HLC members and others to spread the real truth about the blood issue around the world. Progress is being made!

    Would we like it to move more quickly? Sure! What would you like to do to assist? Call those doctors and judges, perhaps?

    Sam Beli

    I have seen all the works which have been done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and striving after wind. What is crooked cannot be straightened and what is lacking cannot be counted. Solomon

  • Lee Elder
    Lee Elder

    “anewperson” wrote:

    <Whether JWs cheerfully or reluctantly sign the anti-blood transfusion cards in the background always covers the fact that if they take a transfusion and then don't say they are sorry they did, then they are disfellowshipped. This is duress. A legal document signed under duress is invalid insofar as judges and medical personnel are concerned. However, those professionals are mostly unaware of the duress factor.>

    The card is only an issue if the JW patient is unconscious. If they are transfused while unconscious, they face no judicial sanctions. Incidentally, JWs who unrepentantly accept prohibited blood products are no longer disfellowshiped but rather show by their actions that they no longer wish to be considered Jehovah’s Witnesses and have “disassociated” themselves – they effect (shunning) is the same.

    AJWRB.org website hangs there in cyberspace doing a fine job for those who happen to find it there, but out in the real world are doctors and judges who do not know about the disfellowshipment duress and therefore let JWs die! Why don't you phone and write the judges and doctors?>

    That is impractical for one thing but more importantly, doctors would not be receptive to that kind of approach. AJWRB medical advisors have strongly emphasized that the most effective way to reach physicians is through publications and conferences.

    <We have heard nothing... N-O-T-H-I-N-G... from Wayne Rogers the President of the AJWRB in ages now. How long is Wayne's term? Is it for life or what? If it is about to expire kick him out for inaction. If it is for life and he keeps trying to choke real-world actions to death by inactivity as he has so far, then start a new anti-Watchtower blood policy website or whatever it takes and do it right this time.>

    Wayne has done an outstanding job as AJWRB’s Public Affairs Representative. I know of no one, who has sacrificed more to support the cause of reform of the Watchtower’s blood policy.

    <Blood is gushing, Lee. Your posting here once in a while is not true leadership. Lead or get your ownself out of the way. I appreciate what you did do, e.g. the journal articles, but since then you have sat on you hind-end. Move it.>

    I’ve done my best to push AJWRB’s agenda forward as has Wayne Rogers, Dr. Osamu Muramoto, Sam Believer and dozens of others. We have worked on the preparation of a dozen or more articles in various medical journals. Sponsored exhibits at two major medical conferences. Prepared, printed and distributed tens of thousands of brochures. Responded to thousands upon thousands of emails from medical personnel as well as current and former JWs. Plus numerous other reform efforts.

    If anyone who is capable wants to jump in here and do more, I’m certainly not holding them back. I sincerely doubt that you have any idea what is involved in getting an article published in a medical journal – try it sometime. We have a major article that we have been working on for over a year that will be published next month in the U.S. - another is in the pipeline.

    A handful of “core” AJWRB members have borne the vast majority of the expenses associated with all of AJWRB’s activities. Members have donated their time and paid their own expenses to travel to medical conventions and help man information booths.

    I could have spent an hour this evening working on an article for another medical journal but instead I responded to your comments. Probably not the best use of my time but if it motivates you or someone else to pull out your checkbook and make a donation than perhaps it wasn't a waste afterall.

    Lee

  • Max Divergent
    Max Divergent

    Hi anewperson: Your comments are silly and show your ignorance.

    1. There is obvioulsy NO duress. It may be peer pressure, there might be enforcable sanctions for non-compliance, people may feel under a looming threat for either not signing or not carrying their card but there's no law against any of that. WTS could say it's just 'friends helping friends'. Given you've raised this before, I think your misunderstanding is deliberate.

    2. What makes you think Dr's aren't aware of the issues? This issue is a regular in peer-reviewed medical journals and that's where Dr's go for their info - obviously you don't. AFAIK, that's where AJWRB concentrate their efforts.

    But it's good we're at least commenting on the issue.

    Cheers

  • Cygnus
    Cygnus

    Lee,

    Thank you for your reply to anewperson. Others would not have replied with such tact.

    I can imagine how directing AJWRB -- logistically, strategically, writing correspondence, researching, etc. -- could take up to 20 hours a week. And a lot of money. And anewperson is forgetting about the significant reforms and public disclosures that have taken place in the recent past.

    I am glad that reasonable people like yourself, Sam, Wayne and the doc are working at this endeavor.

  • nicolaou
  • anewperson
    anewperson

    A store robber puts a gun to a woman cashier's head and says give me the money. She does so happy inside herself that he is getting the money from her boss who is a creep. Now she didn't mind complying at all, but she was still, due to the gun's danger, under duress. Same thing with JWs and blood. Many happily sign blood cards though others don't happily sign the cards, but regardless over the heads of both the happy and unhappy signers is the gun of disfellowshipment, hence clear "duress."

    For a year or so there have been no new AJWRB articles, no new AJWRB appearances at any conferences. Lee, Wayne, Sam did do (past tense) some nice things and the website is still helpful to those who come across it. My criticism is you have all been sitting on your rear-ends for a year now. I don't respect that, nor do the relatives of those who have died in the meanwhile.

    You allude to wanting MONEY. With more money you could do more but even without money you can do a lot. Sam Muramoto must have access to phone numbers and emails of physicians across the U.S. and around the world. So either use those or attend some of the smaller, closer and hence cheaper conferences. Your leaping to dismiss such ideas reminds us of how Alan F also dismisses things super fast.

    A little action beats absolutely no action. Now you say Wayne did a lot so great he DID (past tense) a lot. But in the past year what he has done too. I understand and don't blame those who leap to defend what you and he DID but I am reminding you that that was that - past, way past. You said you have a journal article to write. Good, write it then come back here and tell us you did it.

    You want low-money ideas. There's no lack of those: put names of dead JWs who died due to Watchtower policy on a boulder in a city park, on private property by a road or whatever. Call in the press and get publicity.

    You well deserve my criticisms. Those who defend you are defending the You that was a man of action up to about a year ago, and I do the same. But you do not deserve any praise for doing nothing about this so long now. You burnt out, maybe. I understand, but then so did Wayne and for that matter what of Sam Muramoto.

    I'm repeating. You may continue doing nothing but don't think the rest of us will wait for you. Posters here may heap praise on you but that's all you'll get for inaction. Again, want respect to re-ignite and continue for you and AJWRB? Then earn it. Write the article and tell us about it. I'm not wrong to jump you for inaction and you well know it. Maybe a kick in the tail bone is just what you need.... not just me but those bleeding to death doubtlessly hope the same.

    Don't waste any more time defending your year of inaction with words here, but write the article and that will be a defence. People will donate money only when they see you're doing something to earn it. For that matter if that's been a problem why haven't you guys done anything to earn money by telling others about this crisis? Put your address and a brief request for donations at the very top of your opening page to show you actually want money to help save some lives.

    Repeat for any reader at all, when does Wayne's Presidency ends or does it ever? For that matter when is the last time Wayne cared enough to post here or answer our emails?!!

  • anewperson
    anewperson

    This from the ajwrb.org website itself on the 5th paragraph also lays out that there is duress via threat of disfellowshipment. The courts and doctors need to know and since ajwrb isn't going to inform them but rely on some-of-these-days news articles others need to start doing it. The year 2001 was a do-nothing year for ajwrb.org, maybe a single radio talk given at most. So much more needs done. See the blood dripping from the children and babies, the young women giving birth, car accident victims! Read this:

    BLOOD OATH DEATH RISK
    By CHRIS GRIFFITH - The Sunday Mail - March 7th 1999 - page 3. ( www.news.com.au )

    Jehovah's Witnesses have been asked to sign a document described as a death warrant.

    It forbids doctors and hospitals giving the person blood transfusions in an emergency.

    The church is taking advantage of a new state law which allows adults to give legally binding directions on their health care in advance of illness, even when the circumstances are life threatening. A newsletter accompanying the forms says: "Brothers living near the Queensland border may also want to take advantage of these provisions since they may at some future time receive medical treatment in a Queensland hospital:"

    All 12,000 members of the adult church in Queensland, have been sent a 24 page form with key answers already filled in.

    One Jehovah's Witness said signing it was like "signing my death warrant". She said members had been told to return the signed forms to their religious elders or risk "disfellowshiping". However the Jehovah's Witnesses City Overseer for Brisbane, Dale Irwin, denied signing the forms.was compulsory. The church ban on Transfusions was highlighted in December when 18-year-old Tully Ioannides died in the Princess, Alexandra Hospital after refusing 'life-saving treatment. A Queensland Health spokesman said the legal standing of the new health directive was yet to be tested against law it might conflict with, including the Criminal Code.

    AMA President David Brand said some doctors could face an ethical difficulty witnessing the health directives because they took a Hippocratic oath to save lives.

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