I just post this as a new one, as perhaps you are too busy to keep track of replies to older threads of yours:
I think most of the dissimilarities /"problems" as to the Concentration camps figures you give, or more correctly, the Watchtower literature gives, is due to the perspective from which it is seen, what the articles are really about. When you quote from the 1974 Yearbook, that article deals with the history of the German witnesses. Other articles deals with for example Concentration camps in Germany, where witnesses from other countries would also be included; other again include or tell about the total persecution, including inprisonment in "ordinary" prisons etc. So one should be a bit careful not just to cut and paste, but to see what is the total amount of people discussed (German, Europe, east Europe etc.). One should, added thereto, not be blind to the fact that research is continually done in this area, new documents found, new life-stories unearthed, and that the whole picture probably is not yet completed, hence varying or increasing or decreasing numbers as to Hesse's or Garbe's or any other researcher's work. German researchers are very careful in their work, and I do not think one should dismiss these two, who are heads of departments in various Concentration camp museums etc.
To Norm: Nazi camp numbers
by TheOldHippie 6 Replies latest jw friends
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TheOldHippie
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larc
Old Hippie,
I think you bring up and interesting point. Different numbers could result from different criteria for inclusion. I do have one question. In the WT literature, do they provide the criteria used to derive the numbers or the references for their statistics? I ask this question because I do not have access to this WT information, and it seems like you have done some study on this issue.
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TheOldHippie
Hello larc; at hand I do not have it, but I will look up references and see what I come up with.
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Norm
Hi there OldHippie,
As I have already pointed out, the "historians" are using figures they have lifted from the WT literature. No one told Garbe that the number of people present at the memorial is irrelevant as only reporting publishers are considered Witnesses. This is elementary knowlegde OldH. If a researcher or historian don't even posess such simple details as that, it is bound to go wrong and it does.
As far as I have been able to find out, the number of foreign witnesses was far to small to make allowances for the fantasy figures the WTS conjures up. The WTS is in desperate need to inflate the number of dead as we all underdstand that 635 dead (although 635 is too many) isn't giving the impression of the huge holocaust Brooklyn so desperately want.
The WTS also keep harping on how steadfast and faithful the Witnesses were, not so. If we are nice and say that there was around 15000 Witnesses in Germany when Hitler became Chansellor we know they were not able to scrape together more than 4-5000 for the assembly in Berlin in 1934. And the WT literature even try to inflate that number to 7000, another falsification.
As old Gestapo interrogation documents show, the entire group of WT leaders in Germany were traitors and sang like birds to the Gestapo and betrayed each others left and right.
I have gone through both WT sources and other souches and they all tell the same story. Some individual JW's were remarkably steadfast and faithful however misguided. The WTS organization and it's leaders starting with J. F. Rutherford on the other hand have absolutely nothing to brag about, their track record during the Hitler years remains despicable and cowardly.
More than half (probably two thirds) of those who was publishers in 1933 had evapoted in 1934 when Hitlers goons started to show interest in the Witnesses. Hardly such a story of steadfastness.
The WTS has been falsifying their own history for years as many of us have documented thoroughly, the Nazi era is of course no exception. We are dealing with compulsive liars.
Norm.
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freeman
You know Norm I have to agree with the Watch Tower apologists here.
Not to criticize you, but you do have a tendency to see everything the Watch Tower does as something done with bad intent. You really need to cut these folks some slack.
As far as the numbers go, it’s not like the Watch Tower Society is anal or really cares that much about numbers. I’m sure any discrepancies you uncovered were as a result of a simple accounting error on their part. Perhaps as was suggested, the differences in numbers can be attributed to different points of view. Do you really think they paid particular attention to numbers when 1,687 of them had lost their jobs or for that matter the 284 lost their businesses or even when 735 that lost their homes? I say no and I’m sure the 457 that were not allowed to carry on their trade, and the 129 that had their property confiscated and the 826 pensioners that had been refused their pensions or even the 329 that had suffered other personal loss would all agree with me Norm.
It’s not like the Watch Tower was really paying to much attention to numbers Norm; they made some simple math errors or something just as innocent.
Lets face it Norm, even the 860 children who had been taken away from their parents, would agree with me too. You might be a smart guy and all Norm, but the 8,917 people arrested and sentenced to serve 13,924 years and two months in prison can’t all be wrong, now can they?
I’m sure of this Norm; as sure as I am about ENRON being the innocent victim of a few minor accounting errors too. So lighten up Norm, just lighten up!
How was that OldHippie, did I show him or what?
Freeman
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Room 215
Freeman,
The Watchtower ``not anal about numbers?' What have you been smoking? I defy you to identify another religion more obsessed with statistics and overpopulated with ``bean counters'' than the WTBTS!
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NameWithheld2
"it's not like the Watch Tower Society is anal or really cares that much about numbers"
Ha ha hah ROTFLMAO!!!! Funny, funny.
Not anal about numbers .... hehe
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Oh - you should have interjected a <sarcasm> into that post somewhere