Moral dilemna...personal integrity vs

by Makena1 8 Replies latest jw friends

  • Makena1
    Makena1

    following the rules of a corrupt belief system?

    This is a post from my wife Sabine and me:

    Over the past three years we have come to the conclusion that the org is corrupt and fosters unreasonable expectations. What gave birth to this question is that so many young people in the congregation we were associated with were leading a double life with the support of their parents. This made it difficult for the ones who were honestly trying to live up to the code, and in our opinion contributed to the emotional, spiritual decline that lead to our daughter's suicide.

    What do you do when you feel you are basicly held hostage in an organization that you realize is false, however, you don't want to lose contact with relatives or perhaps a spouse?

    I wouldn't be surprized that a large percentage of the jws know it's false, but stay for "selfish" reasons, i.e., not wanting to be cut off from family, business partners, friends, or a family inheritance...the list goes on. This isn't just a hard decision for young ones, that are trapped because they have no place else to go. There are adults that stay, but at some level choose to compromise, rather than face losing something or someone.

    Where I lose my compassion for these folks, is when there is lying, and leading a double life. If you want to stay and "enjoy" whatever the reward is, then shouldn't one at least have the integrity to play by the rules and not be a hypocrite while you are commenting, accepting accolades for giving wonderful talks, pioneering, reaching out etc.

    My question is: Does the fact that you feel the religion is wrong, give you the right to keep attending while secretly breaking it's rules. What is morally right?

    I have spent my whole life indoctrinated in the jw religion. Right or wrong, it's enforced a set pattern of seeing things black or white. I would love to hear other viewpoints, or where there are flaws in my reasoning. The fact that I am so unsettled by this topic shows me I must be missing something in my analysis, or I'm letting my personal hurts get in the way of seeing this differently...

    Help me out please....

  • Trilobite
    Trilobite

    Makena1,

    : This made it difficult for the ones who were honestly trying to live up to the code, and in our opinion contributed to the emotional, spiritual decline that lead to our daughter's suicide.

    Words cannot express the sadness. The WTS turns a blind eye to those who give lip service and have no heart. Those who actually try to live by the code suffer, and in your case and your daughters's case suffer terribly or absolutely. You are in no way to blame, the organization persecutes those who take its tachings too seriously.

    : What do you do when you feel you are basicly held hostage in an organization that you realize is false, however, you don't want to lose contact with relatives or perhaps a spouse?

    Only you can answer that; But to say that you are "letting your personal hurts get in the way ..." is very sad and being too hard on yourself. What else is there beyond personal hurt, hurting for losing a daughter is not "mising something in the analysis," it is being human and must be absolutely devastating. Life is too precious to be subject to the ever canging whims of Brooklyn.

    The jw religion is not only wrong, and demonstrably wrong, it is indefensible becauseof the hurt and genuine grief that it causes without reason. Here is not the place to go into specifics because you both are hurting so much, but the first place to start, if I can suggest is this; don't feel guilty for believing, but act. Do something. Even if you eventualy decide that your beliefs were wrong, you have acted out of integrity which is the basis of humanity. The WTS acts out of expediency. Being misled is not a sin. Nothing can bring your daughter back to Earth, but, you both acted out of honesty. Pursue the truth, leaving no stone unturned in pursuit of it.

    The WTS is based on a double life; they DF people for questioning them but feel free to act contrary to their own standards. They reward hypocrites who tow the line but discard tose who value truth

    The only answer to the questionwhat do I do " iso do what people have always done, that is to take courage and determine your own destinty.

    The editor has gone nuts on me and I can't edit the above! Typos abound and I cannot seem to correct them

    I don't know if this helps, probably words cannot, but many on this board understand and will be there for you....

    The fact that you are so unsettled on this topic shows that you are acaring human being who can recognize, pardon me, bullshit when you smell it.

    Good luck,

    trilobite

  • LoneWolf
    LoneWolf

    Hello, Makena1

    My heart is with you. I too had to make such a decision. It all finally came down to one thing: I had to speak truth, without the fear of man influencing me. That became even more important than life itself. I wanted to be able to (symbolically, of course) look Jehovah square in the eye during judgement day and say truthfully, "I did everything I knew how to stand firmly for what is right."

    This is something that I wrote some time back. I gave a copy of it to my father, who promptly turned it over to the elders. I also posted it here. Perhaps it will help a little.

    Dear Dad and Mom,

    Over the past year or so, I’ve felt bad as I could see your disappointment due to my not coming back into good standing with the congregation. I’ve held my piece as much as possible out of respect for your own consciences, as I’ve tried very hard not to put you in the position of violating them. Then again, I didn’t really know how to put into words the things that are in my heart.

    I can also see the disappointment in your eyes, as you apparently feel that I value “my pride” over the unity of the family, a thing that couldn’t be further from the truth. Pride has nothing to do with it, and that you feel that way is especially frustrating for me.

    A few months ago, someone in the Los Angeles area was reading some of my writings and sent me an email requesting advice. His questions stimulated my own thoughts and the results surprised even myself, for the answers to his questions answered some of my own.

    As you may know, I’ve spent a little time looking over some of the web sites on the internet that are frequented by ex-witnesses and have been rather horrified by what I’ve found. The spiritual devastation is appalling. So, curious, I posted these thoughts on the board in order to see what kind of response I might get. They were numerous, warm, and in some cases thankful, for I had expressed in words what many of them felt themselves.

    I ran across this answer again a few days ago, and it occurred to me that it is something that might help you to understand too. With that hope, I’m passing it on to you. Here it is, word for word as it was posted.

    To all ---About Faith.

    I’ve been rather thoughtful these last few days. I’ve tuned in and mainly lurked fairly often, but it just didn’t seem to have the desire to comment on much. However one thing has been bothering me. It was brought on as a result of reading all of the comments and condolences concerning WitnetObservers death, and as the result of a request for advice I received by email.

    I think in some of my previous posts I’ve made a few comments to the effect that I was affected very little by my disfellowshipping, especially as to faith, and that is true. Actually, my faith is stronger now than at any other time of my life, including those times that we moved to unassigned territory or pioneered. Now it just feels comfortable, peaceful, almost proven, and there is an eagerness in it that surpasses anything I’ve ever known before.

    Now be patient with me here. While that may sound like bragging, or even a crowing over others, I don’t feel that way at all. Actually, it bothers me, because in looking around at others who have experienced the same sort of shabby treatment from the Society, I see a considerable amount of agony. The hopeful comments that Joe will now be at peace instead of the mental anguish that he experienced in life is a good example of what I am speaking of here.

    In others I see that they have almost completely lost faith in anything, even the Bible and Jehovah himself. In realizing the fact that they were at one time, like me, in the congregations and thoroughly believing all of these things, is rather startling to me. The question that bothers me so much is this: These are normal people. Why have I not been as drastically affected as they have? Am I a freak or something? (No wise guys, now. GGG)

    I’ve always attributed this equanimity to the fact that I was a loner. I never really cared all that much what man’s opinion was. If someone said something, I’d check it out, even as the Bible says that we should. If that somebody got his dander up due to my checking it out, that was good, excellent even. After all, like it says in Zedekiah 3:8 --- “Always keep a pompous ass in a state of perpetual outrage. It’s the ONLY Christian way to fly.”

    But in responding to that email, I had occasion to look at things a little differently, and I think I stumbled across another reason that is a bit more profound. I’d like to run it before you, as I’d be interested in your comments.

    Here ‘tis:

    I feel that I have been in the doghouse most of my life due to my own insistence on not doing things because I was “supposed to”. I felt that it was highly important that I do them because I wanted to and decided to. Others, of course, usually interpret that as an independent streak or even rebelliousness.

    It wasn’t, though. It truly bothered my conscience, and it took a long time to figure out how to express that in words.

    You undoubtedly remember such scriptures as 1 Thess. 5:19 where it says “Do not put out the fire of the spirit”; like Col. 3:23, “Whatever you are doing, work at it whole-souled as to Jehovah, and not to men” (my italics); of how we are supposed to have joy, as it is a fruitage of the spirit (Gal. 5:22); such as Matt. 22:37, You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind”; and when teaching, that we should be careful to “sound it down into their hearts”.

    It seemed to me that many individuals and even the organization itself was doing exactly that: “putting out the fire of the spirit.” Let’s examine some of the ways they were doing that:

    On the simplest level, such things as joy and love are not things that we can get simply because we are “supposed to” have them. They are things that are delicate and precious and have to be nurtured. They stem from the things we have in our life such as our activities and associations. We cannot force these qualities out of ourselves any more than we can force them out of our wives and children by beating on them until they give it to us.

    Those who condemn others for not having enough love for God or joy in their service are on a par with those who would condemn someone for bleeding just because they got stabbed. The only things they accomplish are to demonstrate their own lack of understanding as to what true love and joy is, and to add to the load of the one they are trying to motivate.

    To lay a guilt trip on such ones only makes things worse, for love that is forced is not love. It is at best only fealty. Likewise joy that is forced is not joy. It is a hypocritical false front that destroys one’s self-respect and confidence. Both are destructive to the individual himself (or herself) and to any relationship he may have with his heavenly father. Long term exposure to such things can lead to everything from a hatred of those he should love - to suicide.

    To have a lack of love or joy in one’s service to God does not necessarily mean that one’s heart condition is bad. In my experience, the problem is usually that someone or something is obscuring that one’s vision or understanding of what Jehovah desires of us. That leads us to the next problem.

    There are far too many numbskulls (Paul called them “superfine apostles” in 2 Cor. 11:5 & 12:11) who seem to have convinced themselves that they are so holy that they have the right, responsibility, and moral capital to pass judgement on every aspect of other people’s faith. To illustrate, as it is now, we cannot get baptized – without someone else’s permission. We cannot pioneer – without someone else’s permission. We cannot express ourselves in meeting – without someone else’s permission. We cannot raise questions – without someone else’s permission. Of course, all of these things can be argued interminably, so let’s just cut to the chase by using an illustration: How long would you tolerate someone standing between you and your wife in order to pass judgement on and guarantee that everything you said to her was just so?

    Likewise, anyone who stands between me and the God that I love in order to make sure that I do everything just so, is an interloper and meddler. And I don’t give the foggiest damn how holy he thinks he is or how much his butt weighs. There is war in camp until he moves that stinking butt. Indeed, I feel so strongly about this that I have no intentions whatsoever of giving him any respect, let alone appeasement, and won’t be satisfied unless he’s running in panic with his tail between his legs and yelling “Ki-yi, ki-yi, ki-yi!” all the way out the door. (The one exception to that, of course, is Jesus Christ himself.)

    Let’s look at it another way. We desire our wife’s love and we have authority. Suppose we lay down the requirements that she “prove her love” by coming to us every hour on the hour and smooching us up real good and submitting to sex promptly at 10:00 every morning and evening. Let’s also say that she actually cooperated with this arrangement. Now, would this prove that she loved us? Or could it mean that she is afraid of us and doesn’t want to make us mad? My point here is that in such things as true love, whole-souled service, and joy, there is an element of spontaneity. There is a freedom from fear and a knowledge that if we are not absolutely perfect that it will not be held against us.

    So tell me, how can we exercise this spontaneity toward Jehovah while someone is standing between us, watching every move we make, and demanding that we ask their permission before doing anything whatsoever? Their very presence destroys the spirit, as he is demanding that we serve him, a man, rather than God.

    As to the thought about “sounding these things down into our hearts”: here too we must consider the mechanics of how such a thing is done. If all we do is take the word of these “superfine apostles” that we should believe simply because they are holy and they tell us to (as seems to be the requirement these days), then we are building our house upon sand. Why? Because all they have to do is make one mistake of any kind and it calls into question all of what they have taught. Moreover, we violate the commandment given to all of us to “test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, . . .” (1 John 4:1)

    Rather, Paul emphasizes in his definition; “Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities (those that have evidence demonstrating their authenticity) though not beheld.” (Heb. 11:1 --- Italics are mine.) Because somebody says so is not evidence, and faith without this evidence is not faith. It is gullibility.

    The point is this: To sound things down into our heart, we must have the freedom to test, to question, to probe, to challenge, to bounce it on the floor, to hit it with a hammer, to dip it in acid, to do whatever it takes to convince our hearts that it is something to be trusted. That is impossible to do as long as someone is standing there demanding we believe because they tell us to.

    There is no way to overemphasize the importance of this. Its import extends far beyond our own salvation, but goes to the very core of the heavenly dispute between Jehovah and Satan. Here’s how:

    "Be wise, my son, and make my heart rejoice, that I may make a reply to him that is taunting me." (Proverbs 27: 11) There is no way to escape the conclusion that Jehovah needs something from us, and that it is important. You may remember this passage in the “Truth” book:

    "Satan's false charges against God may be illustrated, to a certain extent, in a human way. Suppose a man having a large family is accused by one of his neighbors of many false things about the way he manages his household. Suppose the neighbor also says that the family members have no real love for their father but only stay with him to obtain the food and material things he gives them. How might the father of the family answer such charges? If he simply used violence against the accuser, this would not answer the charges. Instead, it might suggest that they were true. But what a fine answer it would be if he permitted his own family to be his witnesses to show that their father was indeed a just and loving family head and that they were happy to live with him because they loved him! Thus he would be completely vindicated. --- Proverbs 27: 11; Isaiah 43: 10." (The Truth That Leads to Eternal Life, page 67, paragraph 7.)

    This makes sense as far as it goes. But upon reflection one must realize that there has to be more to it than that. To let one's own family provide the answer would work only under the right conditions, otherwise Satan need merely claim that Jehovah had intimidated them into it. "Well, sure, they would say that. After all, if they say any different you will kick them out in the cold like you did Adam and Eve."

    He could also claim that because Jehovah had poisoned our minds we are too frightened to examine the evidence impartially. Or he could say that we cling to Jehovah for the simple reason that that is all we know and that we would never stick to him if we were aware of all the wonderful things he (Satan) had for us.

    The only way for such questions to be answered is for Satan himself to have access to us. AND if our answers are to be of any use whatsoever, then they must be uniquely ours. No careful repetition of dogma, no predetermined “approved” phrasing of words, and no blind following of others’ instructions will do any good whatsoever.

    They must come straight from our own heart. This is the reason that we will all be tested alone at the time of the end. How can we form that answer without practice? How can we get that practice if someone else is constantly interfering and condemning us for “thinking independently”?

    To go back to the illustration above, while it would be absolutely infuriating to have someone step between a man and his wife, it could also be very damaging to their relationship. It’s much like when a woman is raped. Even though it may not be her fault whatsoever, the relationship with her husband changes dramatically, and not for the good.

    Could you be in a similar situation now? That thanks to those meddlers, your relationship with Jehovah has become strained, uncomfortable, and severely damaged? That the reason you argue so vehemently against the Society and others was not so much that you hated them, but because you had to have time to think and try to heal your spiritual relationship? (I realize that there are many other and good reasons. I’m just wondering what a factor, if any, that this was.) But that the situation is so confused, thanks to them, that you don’t know where to start?

    I’ve come to realize that this is probably the biggest reason that these things haven’t affected me as much. I’ve always tested everything out using the worst acid tests I could devise and paid no attention whatever to those fools who thought they were indispensable to my spiritual well being. To find that they were not worthy of my confidence came as no surprise, because I never really thought they were anyway.

    What are your thoughts?

    LoneWolf (My on-line handle)

    Now, I realize that there is probably much of this that you do not approve of, but I would greatly prefer that you disapprove of something that is real, rather than some nonsensical fiction like “my hurt pride”.

    Dad, you’ve always looked disgusted whenever I say that I will not compromise my integrity. Hopefully, this will convince you that I mean what I say and that there is substance to it.

    In any event, thank you for my life, and for being my parents.

    All my love,

  • Makena1
    Makena1

    TRilobite and Lonewolf - thank you for your encouraging and heartfelt replies.

    I would like to share another reply from a friend from another board regarding "our obsession" (not being facetious) with this matter.

    He wrote in part:If I understand you correctly, you appear to have a problem with JW’s who no longer believe, but stay in the religion for fear of loosing ties to family, friends or business contacts.

    You consider a significant number of these folks to be liars, hypocrites, guilty of leading a double life, and lingering in a religion in which they no longer believe.

    For the sake of argument, lets assume that your analysis is correct.

    Why do care that a significant number of Jehovah’s Witnesses are under performers? Why do you continue to look backward at the organization you’ve already left behind? Why are you concerned that many JW’s don’t aspire to the same rigid standards that you and your family set for yourselves, when you counted yourselves as “good Jehovah’s Witness”?

    If you’re getting the general impression that I no longer care about Jehovah’s Witnesses belief system and am especially unconcerned about how much or how little faith the average Jehovah’s Witness has, your right. The question I have for you is…why do you, still?

    Look, I suspect that you and I are not that different in some ways. I’ve been conditioned to look at issues in black or white as well.

    If someone wanted to get really pointed, they might ask of those who are not disassociated, disfellowshiped or written a letter of resignation, “Why haven’t you removed yourself totally from the stench of being a Jehovah’s Witness”?

    GWB just declared, “If you’re not with us, you’re with the terrorists”. Should we feel any differently about separating ourselves from Jehovah’s Witnesses? When it comes to the organization, shouldn’t we, all of us, take a clearly defined stand, one way or the other?

    My wife replied:good questions! Why DO I care? Well, I like to think I really don't care, but some aspects of the religion still haunt me.

    I have only been "out" for a little over one year. After being in over 35 years, it's taking me sometime to process a lot of my feelings about my involvement, and of course all the different things that contributed to my daughter's death.

    It is mainly the aspects of the religion that contributed to her death that I am most concerned with. Due to the fact that I was not given much information from the elders that met with her the day before she died, and the fact that the elders through intimidation prevented most of the young jws and others to reveal information about what was going on prior to her death, I still have at times nagging questions as to what really went on.

    I am very prone to take as much responsibility for her death as I can. One question I ask myself is if I had gone along with most of the parents in the local congregation, in aiding my child to lead a double life, would she still be alive today?

    This is why I am asking for help in thinking through this moral dilemma. At the time, I honestly didn't see the "rules", especially for young folks, to be unrealistic. Mostly because I was able to follow them when I was a teenager with no great difficulty, so I didn't feel bad about asking my child to live up to standards I was wholeheartedly willing to do myself.

    But, after her death, it was like all the parents that did encourage living a double life, had the elder's blessings to point the finger at me and say "see you were too strict, no one really expects you to live your life fully according to the societies recommendations".
    Correct me if I am wrong, however, I have noticed an attitude among some ex-jws or those jws that are disillusioned with the society, that since the borg. is corrupt, and not the "truth", it's okay to remain affiliated but live your own private life as you see fit.

    Even if we were talking about another organization, company, or personal relationship, this basic moral question still intrigues me. For example, if you are unhappy with how the country is spending your tax dollars, can you then cheat on your taxes? If your boss unfairly passes you up for a promotion, does that justify your stealing from the company? If your wife is no longer fulfilling your "needs", does that give you the right to go out on her behind her back? It's the same basic question to me. If you think the borg. is wrong, is it morally correct to lead a double life but still hang around for the other "benefits"?

    I understand your view on those of us that have not chosen to formally disassociate ourselves. For me, this is very different from those that go to the meetings, out in service, and give a false impression that they are still members. There is no question that I am no longer a member, and no longer live according to their rules. For me to go back, and talk to the elders about my personal reasons for leaving, would be like me bending over the conference table and handing them a jar of petroleum jelly...for one final session of spiritual sodomy! No thanks!

    I admit I wish I could walk away and never think again about these *. I am sure it's my daughter's death and it's connection to the borg. that keeps haunting me.

    Respectfully,
    Sabine

    This is an on-going journey for us - and we have found a lot of good information and support in understanding what we and others are going through. It is not our intent to judge anyone on their personal decision whether to leave the org or hang on for any number of reasons. Thanks for listening, reading and replying.

    Best wishes to all!
    Makena

  • joelbear
    joelbear

    I am going to approach your question from a bit of a different angle.

    To me, it is basically a "coming out" question. People have to "come out" as gay, atheist, liberal, etc. Anything that puts them in opposition to the majority and makes them vulnerable to shunning, financial instability or other unpleasant things.

    I used to run a coming out support groups for gay men and women and we discussed at length the whys and why nots of coming out and the pros and cons of coming out vs. lying about our true feelings to everyone around us.

    Maybe its a stretch but I think some of the same principles apply.

    My argument and the argument of many others was and is that, if every gay man and woman came out tomorrow, then it would no longer be an issue because we would change the view of the world in one day. That is one of the underlying reasons that I came out, because I hope the world will be a little better for gay kids in 50 years when I am gone.

    You could look at your position the same. As long as you stay in supporting something you don't believe in, you give support to the concept that the bad idea is okay.

    Just something to think about.

    hugs

    Joel

  • siegswife
    siegswife

    Is it wrong to live a double life in association with Jehovah's Witnesses? I think the answer would be yes. It's wrong for a couple of reasons, the first being is that you would be living a lie. Why would you want to live your life like that? What can you possibly gain by pretending to be someone you're not?
    The second reason is that by staying and pretending that you are in agreement with them, you give credibility to something that you no longer find credible. You are bearing good witness for a lie. Do you want your life to spent perpetrating lies or truth? If you no longer agree that the JW's have the 'truth' then you shouldn't use your life to project it as such.
    I'm so sorry about your daughter. I hope that you can come to the point where you can feel free from the guilt it sounds like you have. We all make mistakes in our lives when it comes to dealing with our children. None of us are given a manual when are kids are born to tell us the perfect way to raise them. We can only do the best we can. No one is truly 'selfless' and our egos will always play a part in how we see a situation. I'm sure that whatever occurred between the two of you, you only had what you perceived to be her best interests at heart.
    One of the most important things I've learned from my experiences with and subsequent refections on the JW Organization is that I cannot be master of the faith and actions of others, and I will not allow someone else to be master of mine.

  • dungbeetle
    dungbeetle

    Having been guilty of leading that 'double life' myself...just imagine what my dear elders would think if they knew I'd been to Ritzville or am going to San Francisco this weekend...

    That having been said...

    It just seems to me that all this 'Monday morning quarterbacking' is part and parcel of the introspection and recovery and grief when someone we love dies. We need someone to share the blame, to heap responsibilty on, because our pain is so great.

    But really haven't people been dying and/or committing suicide for thousands of years? Haven't the ones they left behind had to cope, with far less support system and knowledge of mental health issues than we have today? Not just JW?

    Is it really about being a JW? Isn't it about love, and the benefits outweighing the risks? Death touches everyone; you hope that the religious group you are affiliated with will protect you and shield you...and guess what, it doesn't happen that way.

    One of the things that opened my eyes to this was when I found out that some of the 'leaders' of this board are not and have never been JW. It totally stunned me. Why are they here? How could they understand? Becuase they've been through the same things, with other religions or other abusive 'families' (which is what a cult is).

    When we were inside the JW we thought we were 'special' or 'different' 'unique' or 'elite'. Guess what....we weren't. Not on that basis.

    The people that are leading the double lives are not the problem. It's the organization (or actually the ones 'high up') that forces people to live that way. People have been leaving this organization since the 1890's...it's just that FINALLY at least in some parts of the world people are leaving faster than they are coming in.

    Some of us got out fast enough, before something bad happened to us. some of us did not get out in time; something bad happened.

    We shouldn't be so hard on ourselves or on others.

    Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...

  • detective
    detective

    It's important to think about this from a psychological perspective as well. It may be that a person is struggling within and cannot fully come to terms with it. As a result, they may act out or assume a double life. For those struggling, we could write them off to being hypocrites or we could consider that they are trying to gather the strength to find out who they are. Some will lead double lives without a second thought. They may not feel the pain of true inner struggle but rather wonder how much they can get away with as long as it suits their needs. Others will struggle under a constrictive environment created by the cult. They will feel constantly at odds and may "try out" the outside world to get a better sense of where they stand. This type of double life will tear them apart and eventually they will make choice. Still others will recognize the witnesses for what they are and pretend so that they can keep a foot in while trying to get others out. Let's face it, you have alot to lose when you considering breaking the rules or leaving. Yes, there are people who are probably devoid of basic human integrity and will never apologize for their hypocrisy but I can't believe all the ones leading double lives are like that. Instead, I believe they are questioning but are too afraid to bring it out into the open or are not prepared YET to do that. The organization tries to squash people's freedom to make choices by attaching major penalties. It's a rare person who can just stand up and defy the organization before they test the waters in some fashion.
    Surprisingly, my struggle with this comes in door to door preaching. Those that have doubts or know the score, are they responsible for enslaving others just because the are frightened and cannot stand up against the organization to do what they know is right?
    It'd be too easy to condemn people outright for their hypocrisy. Although there are plenty of people who probably deserve it. I find it unacceptable that the higher powers in the organization itself are so wholly hypocritical. However, they are different than most rank and file members in that they encourage organizational-wide hypocrisy for their own empowerment. Hypocrisy breeds hypocrisy. But let's not forget that many of the rank and file are victims trying to supress their natural urges for freedom.

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    Hi Makena, I know EXACTLY what you are saying. Having been raised in this thing myself, for 50 years until our "epiphany" six years ago, I understand what you are going through. For myself, I was very strict, judgmental, and like a little Pharisee, wanting everyone to follow all the rules, like we did......or tried to. If someone didn't do that, then they should have to pay the penalty. Right?

    But it didn't always happen. They either lied their way out of it, or had very liberal elders who let them off, so to speak.

    When I was in pioneer school, I asked some direct questions about certain behaviors that I felt were wrong, such as R-rated movies, dancing with people you aren't married to, missing meetings to go to a concert, tattoos, etc. Both CO's were reluctant to give me a ruling on those things, and one of them said this: "An overly strict conscience is a weak conscience". In other words, if you have a ruling on absolutely everything, why do you need a conscience? That had a HUGE impact on me, and I changed that day, to trying to let people make their own decisions. It was tough though, and I still behaved like a little Pharisee, most of the time, but gave people a little more slack.

    Three years later, when I learned the truth of things, everything crashed hard, all around me. We still went to meetings for 2 and half years, after that, but I became a "live and let live" person. I can't honestly say why it happened so fast, but I felt like people had the right to do what they wanted to do. (as long as it didn't hurt others) If they wanted to go to all the meetings, they would. If they wanted to pioneer, they would. I no longer criticized anyone. Especially myself...........I let go of all the guilt.........forever.

    As to your daughter's death.........since I know the whole story, I can tell others reading this, that the fault lies with the elders in your congregation, and not with you and Sabine!!! They messed up, and just didn't admit it..........and tried to guilt you two into thinking it was your fault.

    I honestly don't believe you feel responsible for her death. And you shouldn't.......ever. I am so ANGRY about what happened to your family, that it is taking all I have in me, to not write an anonymous "poison pen" letter to that elder, that I know too. He should face the music, so to speak. Anyway, a wrongful death suit would sure wake some people up, in this area. They need to be awakened!!

    Okay, I am off of my soapbox.

    Great meeting you, Sabine.

    Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)
    "Those who know, don't say, and those who say, don't know."

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