questions for my elders

by sleepy 22 Replies latest jw friends

  • sleepy
    sleepy

    Here are some questions I have prepeared for my elders if and when they deside to visit me.
    Anymore you can suggest?

    Questions?
    1. GENTILE TIMES.
    a. why do we believe in such a thing as the gentile times? this arises as it is not specifically mentioned in the bible as described by Jehovah’s witnesses.
    b. why do we calculate that they start with the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 b.c.e.? historians place the event in 587 b.c.e. the 607 date is not mentioned in the bible either.
    c. why is the duration calculated the way it is? It involves such thing as a prophetic year of 360 days times by 7 then changing a day for a year then saying these years relate to the modern western calendar of 365 1/4 days.

    2. PROPHECY.
    a. why do we believe you can only understand certain prophecies after the event. if the prophecy can’t be understood properly until after it has happened what purpose does it serve. how can we trust the interpretation of the fulfilment of prophecies that are ambiguous.
    b. Why do we believe prophecies have a hidden or double meaning? there is nothing in the bible that specifically states that some prophecies have double or triple fulfilments the fulfilment of which is usually claimed to be with jw’s in resent or near history.

    3. FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE.
    a. Why do we believe this is a prophecy about and organisation god will use in the time of the end? why say that this has a meaning extra to an illustration that Jesus was giving about Christians being ready for his return.
    b. Why believe the organisation we now know as Jehovah’s witnesses was selected as the above in 1919? the beliefs of the Russellites or bible students were very different from ours today. They generally thought the slave was Russell Michael the arch angel was the pope that Christ presence began in 1874 and last days in 1799 that the resurrection to heaven began in 1874 used the cross celebrated birthdays and Christmas thought the end of the world would come in 1925 and used pyramidology in time calculations amongst many more things.
    c. If chosen by God why so many beliefs changed? if god is using this organisation why have they had to change so many teachings. These changes have lead to the disillusionment (dates) and even imprisonment (civil service) and death (vaccines and transplants) to many.

    4. TRUTH.
    a. Are organisation or unity more important than truth? must individual witnesses accept and preach things they believe to be false for the sake of unity or loyalty to the organisation?
    b. Is there such thing as present truth? on what basis does the society establish the truth of a matter ? how can something be accepted as defiantly true today but false tomorrow , whilst things that we can’t be sure of ( we need faith ), are still taught as definite truth?

    5. BLOOD.
    a Why is whole blood transfusion not allowed yet nearly all the components that make up blood are ok? Why is it not taught that whole blood transfusions are very rare and that we are allowed nearly all of blood if it is broken into parts. Why is a distinction made between certain parts of blood , what is the basis.
    b. Why are we not allowed to donate blood but are allowed blood fractions from donated blood? This seams hypocritical especially in view of the vast amount of blood that needs to be taken and stored in order to supply the small blood fractions we can use.
    c. Why do we teach blood transfusions are like eating unbled meat? A blood transfusion differs from eating food as it is a transplant and nourishment can not be gained from it. If you were starving doctors would not give you a liver transplant or a blood transfusion. Alcohol and sugar could be injected into your veins as the body can draw nourishment from them from the blood stream. To benefit from blood it would have to go through your digestive system. When you have a transplant does not the organ contain blood?
    The command to Noah says not to eat flesh with the blood in it as the soul was in the blood yet we believe the soul dies with your body .Was this a command not to eat live animals?
    d. Is blood more sacred than life? When people have a blood transfusion they don’ kill the donor like an animal for eating , but the patient may die without the blood . Which is more important the blood or the life?

    6. HISTORY
    a. Why is the organisation not more open about past history? For an organisation that prides itself on truth and honesty why does it not make it easier for people to know its full history with out bias or editing? can it not discuss mistakes made ( which number much more than many think ) and why they went wrong?
    b. Does anyone really know the true history? due to the fact that no one is alive today who remembers the beginning of the org or its early history is it possible to know the motives of such men as Russell , Rutherford and others?

    7. APOSTASY
    a. What happens to people who were disfellowshipped in the past for things we no longer view as false or wrong? Say you had an organ transplant in the past and were disfellowshipped would you now have that annulled?
    b. Would the beliefs of Russell , Rutherford , Knorr or Franz make them what we know consider apostate?
    How come they wrote things in the magazines that were wrong and were not removed when if a publisher promoted wrong beliefs he would be accused of apostasy?
    c. Are you an apostate to God the bible or the organisation? If you disagree with a point the society believes but is not directly stated in the bible are you going against a bible command? In which way does believing that the proof leads to a different conclusion from the society make you an enemy of god?
    d. Why are witnesses discouraged from considering criticism of societies beliefs? How can you establish the validity of a view point without hearing the other side of an argument? What happens when you come across new evidence you hadn’t considered before ? How would you feel about people not listening to your side of the story are they closed minded? Are only the society allowed to look at apostate books , if they don’t how do they know what is in there?

    8 144,00
    a. How many bible students and Jehovah’s witnesses in total have claimed to be anointed? We would need to know this figure and add it to those we know of in the first century plus a estimate of the 1800 years in-between to see if they tally with 144,000.
    b. Why are they considered to be instantly perfect in heaven when those resurrected to earth are not? What is different about the people that go to heaven that allows god to grant everlasting life immediately but those on earth have to endure another test?

  • Moxy
    Moxy

    these look good sleepy. i have been thinking of composing a similar list of questions just for my own sake. to see it all laid in point form.

    understand, of course, that most of these questions have a very easy answer tho in a superficial sense. if the opportunity ever does come for you to discuss them with an elder, you should familiarize yourself with these 'easy answers' so you are not left without a reply and made to look stubborn.

    mox

  • D wiltshire
    D wiltshire

    Sleepy,

    That's a very good list!

    I could give you more about JC commttee's and DF'n protocal but, too much material makes nothing stand out.

    They may not let you use all of what you got, so be prepared to give them the most important points first.

    If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
  • msil
    msil

    yeah,

    "how soon will I be disfellowshipped?" - would be a good one.

    If you dont want to get DFed then shut up and fade

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Sleepy - Good stuff.

    I got to admit that I must be getting old to this stuff. I already know how they will answer the blood questions. BTW donations of your own blood are allowed (conscience must decide) now as long as you use it for an approved blood fraction that you are taking.

    Here is one that will get them going into calling one of those special meetings to kick you out.

    Question

    As an approved Non Governmental Organization with the United Nations, the Watchtower is mobilizing public opinion in support of the scarlet beast, is undertaking to support the work of the scarlet beast and building knowledge and support for the scarlet beast. Mean while last time I checked you still could be disfellowshipped/disassociated for belonging to a political organization.

    So why did the Watchtower go out and solicit the "disgusting thing" like a ten dollar street hooker and then jumped into bed and had (and is still having) sex with the "scarlet coloured wild beast"? Why is the leadership not telling the Rank and File this little "sexual affair" while at the same time has been teaching that Witnesses would be disfellowshiped/disassociated for knowingly "fornicating" with anything political?

    hawk

  • ballistic
    ballistic

    Sorry, I had to stop reading your post. I still get angry every time I realise how much I've been lied to and what a sucker I was.

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    ballistic,

    You are not a sucker. You have accomplished something which few understand. You have found your freedom. Congrats, don't ever ever ever give it up and take care.

    hawk

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    hawkaw, can you post where specifically one can find authorization for witnesses to donate blood? I've heard that mentioned from a few "in the know" people, such as yourself, but I am curious as to how to confirm it.

  • arkangel
    arkangel

    Hi, Sleepy,
    Excellent list of questions. Be aware that if they cannot show you proof in the Bible to answer your questions they WILL tell you to believe whatever the WTBTS says to believe. I had that experience long ago before I left and have friends and family experience the same today. Another question might be why do they restrict the taking of communion unless you claim to be annointed? Read John 6:42-59. It says anyone eating this Bread shall live forever. ANYONE!!!!!!!! Aren't they restricting everlasting life to their members????? Doesn't that make them blood guilty? I also like the UN association question. How can they possibly explain that one away.

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Hi 6 of 9,

    There are two ways we can do this with out getting certain people in trouble.

    One - write the society and ask yourself. They will respond and confirm the above for you. I know this for a fact as I have something sitting on my desk but it can't go past my desk thanks to this stupid "shunning" crap. God, this fear $h!t drives my off my stick at times!!!

    or

    2nd. - Maximus let the cat out of the bag a month ago. Let me Email the big guy and see what I can do to assist you in your confirmation so you can make sure it is a "fact". Once given I will Email or get him to Email you with something.

    hawk

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