How do you break the mind control over a studying witness?

by jgnat 8 Replies latest social relationships

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    A fellow poster privately asked me this question. It's a great question and I thought it was worthy of a public response, so here it is.

    Q..my best friend has been studying with [the JW's] for 9 yrs. Not baptised yet, but heading that direction. I've been trying to learn as much as I can and prepare myself to present "thought-provoking questions" whenever I can. Trying to prepare myself for all the rebuttals also. It's a never ending process! I am curious as to what kind of success you have had in breaking the mind control that the WTS has over your husband?

    A. If your friend has been studying for nine years, I think they are well past being easily turned from the WTS. A well-laid argument won't do the trick Within three weeks of a new study, a JW will have primed the person for "opposition". And this "opposition" they are told, is directly from Satan!

    Becoming a JW takes a lot of time and study. Even if the study starts to doubt, their natural tendency to avoid dissonance (how could I have been so stupid?) will encourage them to be resolved to stick it out. Read up on cognitive dissonance to better understand this phenomenon. http://www.learningandteaching.info/learning/dissonance.htm

    On the plus side, if it has taken nine years for your friend to make up his mind, there may be something holding him back. Does he smoke? If so, the JW's will insist he quit first. If it's not a secret sin holding him back from baptism, he may indeed harbour secret doubts about the organization. You may be able to smoke this out by asking some leading questions like, "Is there anything that would convince you that they don't have the truth?"

    Never ending process indeed! I've been at it for five years, with no end in sight. It seems a JW goes through cycles of devotion, and that there are two distinct personalities inside them. One is the person you know and love, and the other is the "put on" cult personality. Steve Hassan suggests making peace with the cult personality, and coax the natural personality in to the open as much as possible. So again, doctrinal arguments with the "cult personality" are pretty useless. They just end up digging themselves in deeper. I suggest also that you purchase Steve Hassan's "Combatting Cult Mind Control" http://www.freedomofmind.com/

    How do you coax out the natural personality? Reminisce of times together. Talk about their hobbies and interests. Ask about their childhood, their hopes and dreams. Tease them about some quirk in their nature that makes them uniquely them. Reward independent thinking, and always honor their choices. I notice the natural personality comes to the fore the longer away they are from the witnesses, so if you can get them to take a break from a regularly scheduled meeting, that's great! The cult personality starts to take hold again about eighteen hours before the next meeting.

    As for thought-provoking questions, I suggest bringing them up when the natural personality is at the strongest. Bring up the thought or idea, and if they show any anxiety, quickly drop it. You've done your job, you've planted the seed.

    With practice, you will be able to spot the cult personality in the expression of your friend's face and their manner of speaking. The face literally becomes rigid, the words robotic and staged, straight out of the magazines. It's a scary thing to see the first time.

    I suggest also if your friend gets baptized, to go along for the view. Bring your camera. Chat about what you see in the assembly and your honest impressions of the baptism ceremony. And plan ahead to take him out to dinner to celebrate afterwards. That will deflate the glamour from baptism, which is supposed to drive Satan's minons mad.

  • blondie
    blondie

    If someone has been studying for 9 years and is not yet baptized:

    1) Probably hasn't been studying with the same person all 9 years, since the WTS has put their foot down on this. There was a day when it was 6 months and baptized or out the door.

    2) Probably doesn't want to be a JW, just enjoys the attention and the "friendship" of the JW studying with them.

    Blondie

  • Devilsnok
    Devilsnok

    Someone should stick this in the "Best of" section.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Blondie, very insightul additions, thank you. Number 2, duh. I should know all about THAT motive.

  • lonelysheep
    lonelysheep

    Good question. When I studied, no one ever tried to break the mind control with any valid arguments the wt didn't have a "valid" reply to.

    On the plus side, if it has taken nine years for your friend to make up his mind, there may be something holding him back.


    Yes, could they be doubts holding this person back from getting dunked?

    Not wanting to put in the required devoted time to meetings and such?

    Have this study's crossroads been reached yet--where a solid decision is ready to be made about whether or not to get babptized?
    Can his/her society doubts be harbored in on? For example, the whole Dateline thing sat on my mind although I believed the jw's. It wasn't until after I started lurking here and reading Avashai's posts about his brother that made me realize child abuse does actually occur!
    My challenge would be to prove so-called apostate lies as such, in order to test their faith.

    **Add-I studied for 4 years with different people, and never got baptized.

  • whyizit
    whyizit

    Hello!

    I'm the one who asked the original question. My friend HAS been studying with the same lady, but she did say it was off and on for awhile. The past year or two, she has been attending more meetings, etc...

    We had a very interesting conversation about the blood doctrine, and I am sure she was not convinced by her own answers, because she was calling her JW guru's husband and asking him how she should respond. I made some very valid points with their own publication on blood and also read over Acts 15 in context with her, asking her to please show me where it says anything about losing your salvation based on how you respond to the blood doctrine. She could not. Then I just left it alone. The seeds are planted.

    I think Blondie hit the nail right on the head. She likes the attention. I don't think she has committed herself all the way, because she is reluctant to give up so much of her time. She has hobbies that require weekend travel. Something she will not be able to do, if she goes in full service. None of her family are JWs. That is a plus. However, she has been dragging her child along to all the meetings. Her husband is working nights, so he doesn't notice all the time she is gone. When he starts working days again, I have a feeling the poop will hit the fan and he will want her to stop being gone so much. It may be her way out.

    My husband tends to agree with you, that she is not totally convinced by "something". When I asked if she would seriously let her child die rather than allow a blood transfusion, she gave me several different scenarios: a.) she would sacrifice her own resurrection in order to give him the transfusion.

    b.) she has an "out", because her husband would never allow that to happen.

    c.) in a few more years it will be up to her son, and he will be able to make his own choice in the matter.

    Yet, she stated that she would not accept one for herself, no matter what. Since she was so wishy-washy on how she would handle a blood transfusion with her son, I figured it might be a good place to ask questions. She tried to drag me into other areas, but I managed to keep her on topic. She knew her answers were flimsy, but I didn't get sarcastic or try to "teach" her anything. I just kept asking questions, then when I felt her getting defensive, I just shrugged it off and let it go. I thought she might not talk to me for awhile, but she has been closer to me since then, actually! That topic has never came up again. I know it made her think, though. She was giving me all the answers straight out of the "resoning away the scriptures" book. The question I asked were not in there! She was really scrambling. She had no idea that they allowed certain blood fractions. Having worked in the medical field, she knew how blood is separated into those fractions. I'm sure it is in the back of her mind.

    This is a subject that she brought up....she was talking about "some other religion" that says oral sex is forbidden. She went on to tell me that she searched the Bible and couldn't find proof of that and that she also talked to her JW study partners and they couldn't find anything about it either. I was really dumb-founded, because the JW couple who studied with us made that a point right off the bat. No oral sex. Don't they all believe the same thing? Or do you think she was fighing to see what I thought?

    These posts are great and very helpful! Thanks for passing along so much wonderful knowledge and hope. I know it is not going to be easy, but I have faith that God is leading her out of the WTS. It will happen in His good timing.

  • parakeet
    parakeet

    To break mind control, there have to be a few "cracks" already present in the form of doubts and questions. Nothing will break the mind control of hard-core JW, because the mind turned to concrete a long time ago.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Whyzit, you are doing a lot of things right. I have a feeling if you continue to extend your friendship, or even invite her to a larger social gathering, she could give up the society "dream" altogether. Or maybe invite yourself along to one of her gatherings. Have a good look around with your jaded eye, and if she asks your opinion later, give some guarded criticisms. Believe me, it won't be hard to come up with something. The meetings are mind-numbingly boring and restrictive.

    You might just ponder out loud why certain issues do NOT have an answer in their Reasoning book. Could the society have anything to hide? Why would a Truthful organization have to do that?

  • whyizit
    whyizit

    Thanks for the encouragement! (I can sure use it.)

    Back in the season of what we "worldly Christians" call Easter time, my husband and I were invited to the "memorial" and we attended. Although it was not the same congregation that my friend attends, she did know that I was going, and she did ask what I thought of it.

    Basically, how it compared to other churches. I told her kind of non-chalantly that it was differnet than some, same as others. No biggie! Then I went on to point out something to her that I noticed about one of the gentlemen who was insisting on speaking to me and my husband before we left. He would start off with the small talk (how are you? where you from?, etc...), then he would out of the blue mention Jehovah, then he would go back to talking about how many hours he spends in service, etc...., then he would throw Jehovah and the end times in again, then he glances at his watch, .... AND IT DAWNED ON ME!!!! Mr. 98-Hours-A-Month was using our conversation as "counted time"! He didn't care anything at all about us as people. We were just minutes in his log book, making him look good. I told her that it was very obvious and I felt used. I don't know where he got the idea that being a phony to promote your hourly count is appropriate, but I'm quite sure it is not condoned in the Bible. She agreed with me and thought it was really a lousy thing for him to do!

    Could it be possible that she doesn't know that her JW gurus are counting their time spent with her? This might be a big heads-up for her, should she ever become baptised. Especially if they all of the sudden don't "love-bomb" her any more.

    If she ever invites me to anything, believe me, I WILL be there! Any opening at all, I am jumping on the wagon. None of the JWs I have met have ever labeled us as opposers. I intend to keep it that way.

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