by Pistoff 20 Replies latest watchtower medical
I have had two sons with depression and suicidal thought be disfellowshipped with the elders saying that there was nothing they could do; that depression was not an excuse for wrongdoing. I can't help but feel that this misses the point, that the depression could be contributing to the behavior and that the df'ing could push them over the edge.
Anyone else interested in pushing the society on this matter? How many suicides are out there from being df'd while already depressed?
Simply because the elders are not trained professionals in the subject of depression.
And many of them simply do not understand the effects of depression on individuals, unless they have had first-hand experience with the illness.
I have written to the Society about the subject of depression, and the need of the Society to give their elders more education about this, but I am still waiting to receive a reply from Brooklyn.
Prisca,
You think the folks at Brooklyn headquarters are bit averse to receiving unsolicited advice??? Only speak when you're spoken to, young lady!
Pistoff,
This is yet another area (similar to child molestation) where the elders are in "way over their heads" and need help from professionals. But it's just simpler to judge someone and kick them to the side rather than provide Christian help. Or human help. Or even show that you care.
Their saying "depression is not an excuse for wrongdoing" indicates that they didn't really want to think about any factors contributing to your sons' life experiences and reactions. No, it's just too complicated -- and of course the congregation must be "in danger" so let's get this case wrapped up!
Pathetic, on the part of the elders.
Hi Pistoff,
After high-ranking Bethelite Richard Wheelock killed himself by jumping out a Bethel window, the Society appears to have edged toward a more enlightened approach.... but their progress has been glacial.
Still, it's a little better than in their darkest days when elders often exacerbated depression and suicidal thoughts by telling the afflicted that their sufferings were evidence of some spiritual defect -- ``Jehvoah's spirit is greived or not fully operative in your life,'' or worse yet ``the demons have you" Until very recently, and only when it turned up on their doorstep, have they even begun to consider that clinical menaytl illness/depression is not a stigma and is treatable-- certainly not by elders, however, who usually excel at only one thing-- making a bad situation worse.
: I have had two sons with depression and suicidal thought be disfellowshipped with the elders saying that there was nothing they could do; that depression was not an excuse for wrongdoing.
People who entrust the mental health of people they love to clueless window washers shouldn't be surprised window washers would make such statements.
Send them to hell and get someone who knows what s/he is doing.
Farkel
My mother had been disfellowshipped for only 4 months when she committed suicide.
She had depression problems on and off for years and a prescription drug dependency.
Did they take that into account, did they offer her any help, did they give her time to come out of rehab? NO NO NO AND NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are self righteous , self proclaimed professionals who have God's spirit as their higher power, even more insightful on such matters than professional.
They will discourage you from getting help, tell you to leave it in Jehovahs hands, pray more, go in service more, etc.
The are so far from being qualified I would compare it to me thinking I could do brain surgery because I saw it on the Discovery Channel. The elders have a book to tell them what to do, and how to handle these cases. It destorys people. Can you imagine how many people who have even more difficult mental problems are treated? Yet isnt it amazing how they are experts in all fields of mental health. They might as well sign the death certificate, I for one, will put some of the responsiblity on my mom's elders in the way they treated her. For years they ignored her problems which were well known, but overlooked, Dad was an elder, so you get that picture. After she goes to rehab she starts smoking,,,,,,,,,,,,, that is what they got her for, not the years of drug abuse, even thou that was a sickness , intertwined with emotional problems. They were just ready to get her out and I swear she got disfellowshipped in the mail, they never once tried to meet with her. They are liars if they say they tried to help her. I was there I saw it first hand. Total lack of love and total proof of their stupidity.
I had read somewhere that Jehovahs witnesses had a 10 times higher rate of mental health problems than the average Joe. I believe this info. came from one of Hassan's books called Jehovah's witnesses and mental health.
Fear and guilt of not living up to the high standards they set along with all the hogwash bullshit doctrine they preach, their viewpoint about others, pushes many over the edge.
I have a friend who is a practising JW (although its hard to tell most of the time!) who has suffered with mental health related problems for most of his adult life. He tends to get really down and then have anxiety related issues when in public places (panic attacks).
Fortunately for him, when moving congregation the body of elders there offered him great support and even allowed him to continue smoking dope (yes, believe it or not) while he was pulling himself out of a deep depression. He has now kicked his drug habbit and continues to work alongside the JWs, although he is very much a fringe member (he won't do talks / say public prayers etc / plus his ministry is minimal).
So I think it depends where you go and who you speak to. But as the dude said earlier in this thread - if you get a window cleaner to assist you with your problems, then the most he'll be able to do is advise you what leather to clean your glass with.
Room215,
Still, it's a little better than in their darkest days when elders often exacerbated depression and suicidal thoughts by telling the afflicted that their sufferings were evidence of some spiritual defect -- ``Jehvoah's spirit is greived or not fully operative in your life,'' or worse yet ``the demons have you"
C'mon, don't you think this still goes on waaaaaaay more than they would like to admit? I mean, if the elders in Podunck MO haven't been personally briefed by a GB member, is there a chance they are going to show even the limited sensitivity the WT publications call for hint at? I think this crap goes on way too much even now, and not just elders, but the general attitude of the congregations.
One could say that it takes a long time to turn a ship as big as the WT org, but that really isn't true. On any givin matter, in this case "sensitivity to the depressed" the Wt org could teach, in no uncertain terms, the most current way to deal with the depressed, worldwide, in a matter of a couple of weeks. Special talks, ministry school parts, and special meetings by the CO/DO's.
They have the infrastructure in place. The WT could be cutting edge beyond almost any organization.
If they gave a shit, that is.
u think the folks at Brooklyn headquarters are bit averse to receiving unsolicited advice??? Only speak when you're spoken to, young lady!
Well, I'm sure as long as she wore a head covering when writing the letter, it's okay...
it's a little better than in their darkest days when elders often exacerbated depression and suicidal thoughts by telling the afflicted that their sufferings were evidence of some spiritual defect
You know, by the time I left (~1 year ago), it really hadn't changed that much, though. We had a family of sisters who all married young and had SEVERE depression. More attempted suicides between the lot of them than we have Indians fans in the area.
ALL their husbands were elders or ministerial servants, too. You'd think, of all people, your own HUSBAND would be more understanding than simply towing the party line of 'not spiritual enough', etc.
