Ground Rules for Rational Debate

by jgnat 10 Replies latest members adult

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Words, words, adjectives and declarations of victory. If both sides have their own criteria for victory, both sides can claim the win. I could use popularity, number of questions answered, biblical accuracy, or quality of the insults. Or might there an objective measure for the better argument? Luckily for me, all this has been considered before. There are rules for logic and reason.

    Before I can reasonably expect a challenger to understand why I insist, for instance, on a “definition of terms”, they have to understand why I am so insistent on ground rules. It is even possible in such an environment for strong opponents to come to agreement.

    I expect my opponent to have a basic understanding of logic and the fallacies to avoid, an agreement on the meaning of terms, an agreement on basic ground rules such as, no name calling, and a willingness to concede when the opponent’s argument is superior.

    I’ve included some articles below to explain why I value these ground rules so much.

    The Internet and the Public Sphere: Revitalization or Decay? May 1998 by Christopher D. Hunter

    ... ingrained in the culture of the Internet is the "flame" which normally takes the form of an irrational, adhominem attack against ones character and/or physical attributes. Such irrational, and even dangerous conversation led the Dallas Morning News to shut down its "News' forums" which allow users to electronically discuss the days news. The forums were closed due to violations including obscenity, suggestive language, sexual and racial insults, and threats (Outing, 1998). This type of conversation also fails the third Habermasian ideal speech criteria, as it substitutes threats of violence for rational debate.

    All of this is not to say that the Internet is completely devoid of worthy conversation. In fact, using Schudson's conception of "democratic conversation" it is possible to find a good deal of worth in Internet discourse. Schudson's conversation requires that people be willing to publicly argue and agree upon certain ground rules.

    What is a logical fallacy?

    Why study how to reason incorrectly; why not just study how to reason correctly? There are two reasons:

    1. Even if you could count on reasoning correctly 100% of the time, you cannot count on others doing so. In logical self-defense, you need to be able to spot poor reasoning, and—more importantly—to understand it. To be able to correct others' mistakes, or to refute them convincingly, you need to understand why they are wrong.
    2. Studying formal logic and the rules of correct reasoning is like having a road map that shows how to get from point A to point B. However, even the best navigators sometimes get lost, and it helps if the roads that go nowhere are clearly labeled "DEAD END", "WRONG WAY", or "DO NOT ENTER".

    Habermasian Communicative Rationality

    1. The most basic of these idealized presuppositions is the presupposition that participants in communicative exchange are using the same linguistic expressions in the same way. This is an obvious but interesting point, which clearly illustrates what an idealized presupposition is. It’s a presupposition because communication would not proceed if those involved did not think it was at least approximately satisfied (in this case that a shared language was being used). It’s idealized because no matter how closely it is approximated it is always counterfactual (because, in this case, the fact is that all meanings are to some degree personally defined).

    2. Another, basic idealized presupposition of argumentation is the presupposition that no relevant argument is suppressed or excluded by the participants.

    3. Another is the presupposition that no persuasive force except that of the better argument is exerted.

    4. There is also the presupposition that all the participants are motivated only by a concern for the better argument.

    5. There is the presupposition of attributing a context-transcending significance to validity claims. This presupposition is controversial but important (and becomes expanded and clarified in the presuppositions of discourse, see below). The idea is that participants in communication instill their claims with a validity that is understood to have significance beyond the specific context of their agreement.

    6. The presupposition that no validity claim is exempt in principle from critical evaluation in argumentation;

    7. The presupposition that everyone capable of speech and action is entitled to participate, and everyone is equally entitled to introduce new topics or express attitudes needs or desires.

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    thanks jgnat. ready when you are for the theism debate, i think.

    but just in case i miss your thread, if you would PM me when you start it, i would be most grateful. i realize it may not be for a while, but it also seems like you're gearing up. (rubs hands in anticipation and licks chops)

    cheerio,

    TS

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Absolutely, tetrapod. You are one unforgettable dude.

    I did make myself a promise two years ago. One dragon at a time. I am almost through game-set-match with the WTBTS.

    The most terrifying aspect of the whole debate is that I might have to challenge some of my cherished beliefs. In the meantimes, I will be examining my theological boat for holes.

  • OldSoul
    OldSoul

    Wow! This "Hambersmabian" dude never spent much time here, I can tell you that much!

    Just kidding, great work putting that together. I wish more people were wiling to apply these kind of communication principles, whether formally agreed to or not. Of course, the odd name-calling does help keep some needed friction.

    [adds to TS] Right, genome.freak (tertiarius.cyanophyta) ?

    OldSoul

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I am fairly certain the internet has rolled poor Mr. Habermas full around in his grave. The internet and Fox. And Entertainment Tonight. And opinion polls conducted on street corners.

    ...and since Mr. Habermas is a freaking Marxist, OSO can wash his hands of any wacko theories he might have concocted.

  • Sad emo
    Sad emo

    It's a pity this Habermas guy wasn't around in the 1st century - he might have saved us all the hassle...

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    thanks jgnat~!

    oldsoul,

    (tertiarius.cyanophyta)
    LOL! he he...
  • Forscher
    Forscher

    Thanks for putting that together jgnat.
    One thing I think gets lost in all the clashes of ideas is that debating should be viewed as an opportunity to learn. Approaching debate as a learning opportunity strengthens our reasoning skills and helps us to move forward. It's not truly about scoring points!

    Forscher

  • acsot
    acsot

    kewl!

    jgnat and tetrapod - two of my favourite posters (left) here on JWD. I will be tuning in!

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Thank You Forscher! That is exactly what I am getting at. There is no hope for a productive result to such debates if the goal is win/lose. If the debaters challenge us all to think, we all win.

    Acsot, I am happy to report that stevenyc and leolaia have also expressed interest in the debate. Around Christmas, I think. I will have fewer distractions by then.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit