"If you permit it--- you promote it."

codeblue

It is a very thought provoking comment.

When learning about the scandals and lies about the truth(tm)...is that how you feel?

Codeblue

Euphemism

Absolutely not. That, IMHO, is an example of Witness thinking... life is not that black and white.

Some people are in a position to stand up to what's going on. Others aren't. Some are perhaps quieted by fear or doubt, but will eventually find their courage. Others find it prudent to keep silent because of family or other considerations.

Of those who've left the organization, some are active in speaking out, and helping people leave. Others just want to move on and live their life.

I don't judge anyone's decision.

minimus

I agree with Euph. This is so JWish black and white.

little witch

Im with Euph.

Too either or.

Said another way is "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem".

Nobody can take on every cause and concern. The thing about diversity is, most every social issue is taken on by someone to the betterment of mankind.

Strictly speaking on the jw issues, not all are able or willing to be movers and shakers for reasons that Euph aptly covered.

codeblue

Clarification:

(I'm Codeblue's 'other half'... and asked Codeblue to post this thread to see the responses) This is my first time posting.

As many of us here on the board acknowledge, there are some very serious issues transpiring within the organization. Many of us (myself included) have agonized intensely on how to find the courage to distinguish ourselves from the unethical / non-Biblical / non-Christian bahavior observed in the halls.

I read in the messages above that 'this is too black and white'. "It's jw-ish thinking". But isn't this the whole issue? I personally DO see this as being a 'black and white' choice:

Choice One: The consequences of such efforts to distinguish ourselves from the 'borg' can be devistating indeed! (Df'ing, losing family relationships and lifelong 'friends')

Choice Two: Yet, we agonize over the 'spiritual consequences' of ... just turning a blind eye towards these clear issues. What does Jeh think of our spinelessly "permitting" such bahavior? Am I really identified as God's true Christian when I simply say "Jeh will look after it"? Or Biblically, did Jeh always show favor to those who took a stand against those who risked it all and made a stand for true worship? (For those who do not believe in God or Christianity - the question might be: "Am I being true to my own personal spirituality when I 'permit' my accepted social circle's bad behavior?")

How incredibly agonizing a choice! And each of us as part of the human family are faced with it. (Regardless of being a JW or NON JW)

Do we hold to our true spiritual values? or do we 'permit' spiritually corrupted behavior (as we each individually define corruption) in an effort to avoid pain and loss?

I found strength and the courage to make a choice through meditation on this issue.

I suggest that a compressed version of the above issue may be expressed as "If you permit it - you promote it"

With this 'clarification' - I would still like to hear your comments.

Mr CB....

Lady Lee

Hello Mr CB and I'm very glad you have joined us. And with such a thought provoking question.

I actually agree that silence serves to only help abusers stay safe.

While I understand that people have various reasons for remaining silent it does nothing to help those who need help. I am talking about abuse situations but I think it applies to all ethical dilemmas.

Sometimes my response in a situation is tempered by the possible consequences on the victim, especially when I know I can only have a very small impact on the problem. For example not too long ago I was in a store using my wheelchair. A mother and her child were shopping in the same aisle that I was trying to get into. The mother had left her cart blocking the whole aisle. Her daughter who was about 10 saw me and moved the cart. I thanked her but the mother yelled at her and asked what she thought she was doing. The girl said she was moving the cart for me. The mother yelled at her some more that no one ever moved for her so why should she move for some lady in a wheelchair. The poor girl went from a smile at having done something good to shame at her mother and I suspect some fear. I didn't want to create a scene in front of the child so bit my tongue regarding the mother. But as I passed the girl I thanked her again for her thoughtfulness. Hopefully she will remember that doing good is appreciated. I couldn't walk away with her feeling bad about helping someone.

But I have called the police on neighbors where I heard abuse going on. I have also called them when I have seen small children locked in cars. I have reported co-workers for abuse. (got myself into a lot of hot water for that) but standing there and watching it happen and doing nothing is unacceptable to me. And I also told everyone in my family about who the abusers are. Silence only protects the abusers.

Even here everytime we tell a bit of our truth and experience we are breaking down those walls of silence so that hopefully others can read it and become free of the WT shackles

little witch

I am glad you have posted Mr Codeblue

I hope you will post with your own user name when you feel comfortable in doing so.

But the fact that you posted by proxy is my whole point. Some people are not ready to bolt right out and take a stand.

Shyness, doubt, lack of self-esteem, fear, etc keep some from getting involved.

And that is understood by most people here. You see, we have all been there at some point. It is a gradual process, and we are not all at the same exit point.

I for instance never took to the jw's. I was raised to be one, but just never took to it. I came to JWD by accident and found the comeraderie to be appealing.

Some are here after lurking for months or years, and share their exit with us for supportive reasons.

Some here are or have never been jws and share their experiences with friends or lovers who were in, seeking an explaination to why they exhibit certain behaviors.

So you see, we are all in fluctuation as to our ability to be vocal about our experiences. The one thing we all have in common is our association with jw's.

That in my experience has been a very tight bond, and most helpful.I hope you find solace here, and I look forward to hearing more of your experiences.

LW

Euphemism

Mr CB... I do agree that there are times when someone faces a clear choice. E.g. they might know of a particular individual in the congregation who is accused of child molestation, and the elders are covering it up. In that case, I do agree that it is their moral duty to speak up, despite the consequences.

Your question, however, was about the more general 'truth about the truth', and not some particular scandal of which a person has special knowledge. And that's where I think the difference lies.

Sassy

I agree with Euph. And the thing is, if someone is not ready to have their eyes opened, you may end up pushing them far away with a larger wall of protection. Personally for me, yes I wish those I loved were not 'in', but the thing is, until I was ready to get out, nothing anyone could have said would have helped me. It only would have scared me or offended me to be told that which I held in my heart to be true was a lie. I am not going to make anyone see the lies even though they are real.

Now if they are ready to listen or ask questions, then tactfully I will give them points to think about, so in time they can hopefully escape as well...

little witch

I agree Sassy.

Mr Codeblue, can you elaborate on the issue that is concerning you?

You will find support here, and a few dissentions. That is just part of learning to speak your own mind.

We value that, and want to help in any way we can. You are amoungst friends here. Jump right on in and tell us more. It is very liberating, and you will find that many here have had a similar experience I am sure.

You need a username...Mr codeblue simply wont suffice. LOL

"If you permit it--- you promote it."

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