Where does the light shine brightest?

by JamesThomas 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    You just know there's going to be trouble when there's a preface of apology to the many Christians I'm about to insult. I really don't mean to (honest t' god), but I can't express myself around it and still make sense. The only reconciliation I can offer is just know that everything I say here can, to some degree -- be applied and insulting to Jews and Moslems as well. (is it any wonder my new book: "How to Make Friends Fast", isn't selling). With that said...here we go. Some of us here and at similar forums have expressed discomfort when "Bible thumping" beliefs about Jesus and God are expressed. I have noticed that for some this pain can cut pretty deep; as if there is something more significant going on than just what is seen on the surface. For some of us our hearts scream and cry out in pain; and we know not why. This was probably happening when we were JWs too, but it can often become more apparent as we grow older. Here is my feelings on what may be happening. Could it be that many sincere Christians -- while believing they are honoring God and/or Christ -- are actually and unknowingly making a mockery of the Divine; and thus stabbing a knife in the hearts of those more spiritually sensitive? Could it be that the way in which many Christians believe, the language they use and the way they represent the Divine, instinctively insults those with a more open and loving nature? For example: Some Christians believe that Jesus is God's son. Others, that He is God. What they probably would all agree on is that in order to be saved, in order to be healed, in order to gain God's blessing and attention, one must -- in some way -- acknowledge Jesus. Jesus is the key. (Do I hear an Amen!) Let's look carefully at this traditional and foundational Christian doctrine of acceptance of Jesus as prerequisite to healing and spiritual salvation. What does such a teaching say about the Divine? What color does it paint God's parachute? It's a simple doctrine and what is says is pretty clear and simple to: salvation has a price. Which implies that the Divine is restrictive, conditional and limited in it's out-pouring of love and compassion. These beliefs paint a picture of a God who uses salvation as blackmail. A God motivated to "do good" only out of self-aggrandizement: "Honor me! Worship me! Call on MY NAME, and you will be healed....but only if you acknowledge me as your Helper, your Savior." On the other hand there's you and me. I have three children, if one of them needs help I help them, no questions ask. They don't have to honor me or even love me. If I can help I will. If I had the power to heal or help your children or you, or anyone else in the world I would. No questions ask. No thanks needed. No acknowledgment needed. Thousands of people everyday do charitable and helpful deeds anonymously (some willing to risk their life in helping others). They need none nor do they ask for self-recognition or praise...the pleasure and joy of helping is thanks enough. Chances are -- you are one of these people. Do you see a problem here? Do you see that in comparison to the Christian view of the Divine, many average, run of the mill folks are far more enlightened, far more moral, far more loving, far more compassionate, far more unselfish, far more "Divine" -- than God or Christ is represented as being? Who is more morally sound? Who is showing the fruits of true spirituality? You, who would heal every child, every person everywhere, right now if you had the power no matter what these people thought of you. Or, this Jesus fellow who will heal only if you call on his name? Only if you aggrandize him? Be honest. Who? I'm not saying God or Jesus -- or whatever name you want to use for the Divine -- IS so restricted or morally deficient, I'm just saying that the fundamental Christian beliefs depict God as such. Many Christians (Jews and Moslems) are far more kindly and loving than that which they worship. It seems that the fundamental Christian foundation of acceptance of Jesus before salvation goes blatantly against the loving-heart. Religions are based on exclusivity, in direct opposition to the often times all-embracing heart. Is it any wonder many of us feel ill at ease around religious people shouting in glory to their Lilliputian gods? Is it any wonder many of us feel saddened and beaten when we come into contact with these beliefs. Beliefs that offend the deepest feelings and truths of our heart? Beliefs that belittle and mock the Divine? What does this tell us? Where does the light shine brightest? If there is a God where would it be found? If there is a Christ, where is it? Where abides love? In a petrified old book and belief system? in some stingy old-fart out there in heaven? or in the warm effervescent out-pouring of your own heart? I can't tell you what the word "God" points to, or what Divinity is. But I know more and more what hurts and smothers my heart -- and what allows it to breath. I don't know what Truth is, but I'm beginning to sense what it's not. Perhaps it is an Infinity that the finite mind can not comprehend. Perhaps it has to do with a deeper sense and knowing of who I really am. For me it is clear where the light shines brightest, and that is where I go. But then, I'm justa godless and ignorant pagan. What the hell do I know. JamesT

    Edited by - jamesthomas on 12 January 2003 17:11:56

  • raistlin_majere
    raistlin_majere

    Some very good points. Perhaps you are opening your eyes to the realisation the religion is not synonimous with spirituality?

    To be spiritual you must involve yourself with development of the humans spirit and or spirits. Of course this often fall under the realms of occultism, which is expressly forbidden to anyone who is professing to be a monotheist of the Christian, Judaic, or Islamic faiths.

    I can some this all up in few paragraphs.

    Moses = A human.

    Jesus = A human.

    Buddha = A human.

    Mohummad = A human.

    They were all humans. Very special humans, but humans none the less.

    I'll give the hebrew word for god. Elohim. Anyone that knows even the basics to Ancient Hebrew knows that Elohim is plural. Elohim is also not the impronouncable Tetragrammaton of YHVH. So Christians in general and JWs have made the mistake of thinking that GOD is singular. It is not. It is plural implying more than one.

    Now the root definition of the word Elohim, and literal translation means "those who from sky to earth came". Okay. Now that humans are intelligent enough to understand that there might be the possibility of life on other planets that, that definition of GOD makes more sense. The old texts from the ancient Sumerian and Chaldaen civilisations told a much different story of creation than those modern religion depict. They basically entailed that humans were engineered/created by a technologically superiour race of physical beings. And placed here deliberately.

    A supernatural god indeed. Bah. Those that say that are ignorant of recent archeological findings and even the proper interpretations of ancient text. JWs are the least to be speaking on proper interpretations of biblical texts or any ancient text for that matter. Very few of them have formal education in religion or philosophy, let alone courses in ancient Hebrew, cuneiform, greek, latin, et cetera. The first chapter in Genesis supports all of my claims, in particular Genesis 1:25-27. If god is an invisible unseeable single entity , why does it refer to itself as "us", and why does it say "let us make man in our own image." If god is invisble and formless, why are we physical with appendages?

    Monotheists have it all wrong, and evolutionists have it partly right.

    Here are the facts. We have people reporting being contacted by physical beings from other planets. We have multiple sightings of vehicles in the sky that make a mockery of our modern aircraft technology. How does the bible explain this? It doesn't. Or doesn't it?

  • greven
    greven

    James,

    I fully agree with you. the average human being has better morals than the god depicted in the bible.

    sad but true.

    Greven

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    James Thomas - very interesting post. Thanks. I believe you are right about the "conditional love" of the Biblical God. However, I do see *some* spiritual truths in scripture. Lets not forget that the story of the sacrifice of a god figure permeates many religious faiths ancient and modern. Its an archetypical story that resonates within us.

    Raistlin - you are Raelian aren't you? I browsed the raelian website and found some interesting stuff, but overall I find it unusual to call it a religious belief and I see no evidence of Raelians ever ACTUALLY having any contact with aliens.

    Sirona

  • SYN
    SYN
    Here are the facts. We have people reporting being contacted by physical beings from other planets. We have multiple sightings of vehicles in the sky that make a mockery of our modern aircraft technology. How does the bible explain this? It doesn't. Or doesn't it?

    Right. My eyesight is pretty sharp, and I live in one of the greatest UFO hotspots in the world (yes, believe it or not, South Africa is a UFO HOTSPOT! ).

    And, I've never seen a thing!

    "Physical beings from other planets", ha, what a joke! Parallel evolution in action eh? You've been watching too much Star Trek that's for sure. There is no way that (extraterrestrial) intelligent life would even vaguely resemble us. We might already have encountered ETs, just not recognised them for what "they" are. If the word "they" even applies. Intelligence is so fickle and difficult to define...

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow
    Do you see a problem here? Do you see that in comparison to the Christian view of the Divine, many average, run of the mill folks are far more enlightened, far more moral, far more loving, far more compassionate, far more unselfish, far more "Divine" -- than God or Christ is represented as being?

    This realization has been the most healing part of my journey out of the WTBTS organization. I never feared god growing up. My parents weren't good parents, but in religion they did the right thing. They never tried to use fear and they let us use our good sense to decode things like hell and the trinity. They allowed us to investigate any religion, eastern or western we wanted to.

    Reading that someone decided not to serve any god who is less moral than him/her, well it is the most liberating thing that could happen spiritually for me. I have looked for a way back to the loving God of my childhood, who would never give up on someone or not forgive them. I just took that for granted. I never even entertained the idea that hell could be real. JW's were the ones who instilled fear into me. And for years since leaving, it's been traumatic for me to hear anyone speaking of hell as real. But since reading things like your comment above, I no longer feel that trauma.

    Thank you for giving me this link, JT. I can tell that you are a kindred spirit.

  • WLG
    WLG

    I just had to BTT this, because it just opened a door for me that I didn't know was there.

    Maybe it can for someone else, too.

    WLG

  • Poztate
    Poztate
    Do you see that in comparison to the Christian view of the Divine, many average, run of the mill folks are far more enlightened, far more moral, far more loving, far more compassionate, far more unselfish, far more "Divine" -- than God or Christ is represented as being?

    AMEN...BROTHER.......

  • freedomlover
    freedomlover

    * Perhaps it is an Infinity that the finite mind can not comprehend.*


    This is my conclusion many days after thinking on these same thoughts. I have my ideas and beliefs and most days to be honest I wish my beliefs were as grand as Paradise, living forever, and having a resurrection. Ahhhh, the days of ignorant bliss. However, I am the first to admit that myself as a human being just MAY NOT be the most intelligent evolved being in the universe! (gasping heard here!) Why do we as humans think we are the most highly evolved species???? My finite mind may not be able to comprehend the infinity. Perhaps this is why man still asks the age old questions........

  • WLG
    WLG

    The part that stood out for me was about how it is almost disrespectful to narrow the concept of the source of everything into something that can fit in a small book.

    *passes the microphone back to Richie Rich*

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