Faith vss Knowing

by Satanus 4 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Satanus

  During my christian phase, i used to listen to steve brown, a presbetyrian preacher on the radio. He was a cool dude. He had this saying about faith, 'I know that i know that i know that i know'.

  Deepak chopra had this to say about faith

  If you talk about faith, and belief, it belies an underlying insecurity. I don't need to believe in a light bulb to experience light. There are mysterious forces in the universe that I don't need to believe in because they are part of my everyday reality. Once you realize that, you ask yourself, if God is real, why do I need to believe in God, or have faith in God-that would mean that I am not really sure. If you have an experience of God, just like I have the experience of any of the great forces and elements of the universe, that doesn't require faith. Faith is actually only required when you are not sure; faith is very flimsy; because if something happens that destroys your faith, then you are totally ungrounded. So I think that we need to approach God in the same manner that we approach anything that is real.

  It comes down to knowing directly, through experience, or knowing about. If you only know about god or jesus, without experience, you always feel that little kernal of doubt, don't you? -you can read the rest of chopra's interview at http://www.miraclejourneys.com/Chopra2.htm

  SS who is not a chopraite

  Edited by - saintsatan on 11 January 2003 16:43:14
• 

  refiners fire

  SS.

  Do you agree with this interpretation?

  The creator uttered forth creation because he/ she/ it had "knowing" that it would occur. Faith was not necessary. In New Agey terms, faith is useless , each fragment of creator has to KNOW. If a fragment, ergo yourself, can come to know your Godhood power, your creatorhood power, you can manifest anything into reality. Unfortunately, Im not aware that anyone has been able to achieve this level of "self knowing" yet. The fragments( humans) have self doubt, and are full of contradiction within their own thought forms .Contradiction prevents manifestation. The theory, as I interprete it, is that Creator fragmented itself so as to experience multiplicity and, I guess, physicality and endless creation thru physicalities. Considering that none of the physicalities(people) is able to manifest Jack Shit (other than pain and suffering) I guess the whole experiment by Creator has been a dismal failure. This is why the New Age channellers are all talking about returning to the "Oneness". Because "Fragmentation" has failed. Lol.

  Thats my nutshell understanding of the whole New Agey/ Meditation/ Channelling thing.
• 

  donkey

  . Faith is actually only required when you are not sure

  One needs to have repeatable, provable, falsifiable rules of evidence before one can even postulate a worthwhile theory. anything short of that is pure speculation - even if someone "knows" it. We allI knew for sure that I Armageddon was coming.

  Jack
• 

  Satanus

  I agree that that is the new age gospel. My view of god and his method of creation has been about the same.

  Considering that none of the physicalities(people) is able to manifest Jack Shit (other than pain and suffering) I guess the whole experiment by Creator has been a dismal failure. This is why the New Age channellers are all talking about returning to the "Oneness". Because "Fragmentation" has failed.

  Could be. We could really be more on our own than the newagers think. Newagers use marketing techniques, like others do. They spin their stuff to make it appealing to americans.

  Mystics of all brands of all times generally worked towards unity w 'god', as they saw it. So this isn't unique to the new agers. The manifestation principle may be new. I think the world is slowly becoming a better place, so their efforts are not totally in vain. The fear level that is being maintained since 9-11 is certainly not a good thing. However, it could be less than the fear that we had growing up during the cold war.

  SS
• 

  Introspection

  Even knowing isn't quite enough. There is realization and actualization, you can know till the cows come home and never really get anywhere, but if there is some degree of actualization then it's not just a head game. In fact, that kind of knowledge can be missing in an actualized person, because they're not concerned about abstract intellectualizations. It's simply a matter of naturally being yourself.