Do great crowd members receive holy spirit?

by Pistoff 6 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    Has anyone else wondered this? The WT places great emphasis on the fact that the anointed receive holy spirit, are anointed with holy spirit, and were/are baptized in name of father, son and holy spirit; until the 80's, baptism was still done that way for all witnesses

    Great crowd members, on the other hand, what do we get? Has the society changed how it thinks, do we have any interaction with holy spirit? Baptism now is in connection with god's spirit directed organization, not in name of father son and holy spirit.

    In sunday's "lesson" (lol), mention is made of satan waging war on anointed christians; and then comes this statement:

    These Witnesses and their companions who have an earthly hope need to be vigilant.

    Does that mean that I am not a "Witness"? Am I only an earthly hoping companion?

    GREAT! That means that I can't be disfellowshipped for not believing this crap anymore!

    (edited for typos)

    Edited by - Pistoff on 2 December 2002 11:10:33

  • blondie
    blondie

    Pistoff, I mentioned that same point in my review. It was once believed that only the anointed were Jehovah's Witnesses per Isaiah 43:10,11. That is why some of the anointed after the great crowd "appeared" in 1935, insisted the great crowd could not be called JWs. Russell never expected to gather in any other than the remaining ones, then they would go to heaven in 1914, Armageddon would rid the earth of governments, religion, and commercial interests and the 1,000-year rule would start to help the rest of mankind qualifiy for everlasting life on a paradise earth.

    As to holy spirit and the great crowd,

    *** w96 6/15 31 Questions From Readers ***


    Can we say that Gods servants today who have the earthly hope have as much of Gods spirit as do spirit-anointed Christians?

    This question is not a new one. This same matter was addressed in "Questions From Readers" in TheWatchtower of April 15, 1952. Many have become Witnesses since then, so we can consider the question and in the process review what that earlier material said.

    Fundamentally, the answer is, yes, faithful brothers and sisters of the other sheep class can share equally with anointed ones in receiving Gods holy spirit.John 10:16.

    This, of course, does not mean that the spirit operates in the same way on all individuals. Think back to faithful servants in pre-Christian times, who certainly received Gods spirit. With power from the spirit, some of them slew ferocious beasts, cured the sick, even raised the dead. And they needed the spirit to write inspired books of the Bible. (Judges 13:24, 25; 14:5, 6; 1 Kings 17:17-24; 2 Kings 4:17-37; 5:1-14) TheWatchtower said: "Though not of the anointed class, they were filled with holy spirit."

    From another angle, consider men and women in the first century who were anointed with holy spirit, becoming spiritual sons of God with the heavenly hope. All had been anointed, but that does not mean that the spirit thereafter operated in the same way on all of them. That is clear from 1 Corinthians chapter 12. There the apostle Paul discussed gifts of the spirit. We read in

    1Co 12 verses 8, 9, and 11: "To one there is given through the spirit speech of wisdom, to another speech of knowledge according to the same spirit, to another faith by the same spirit, to another gifts of healings by that one spirit. . . . But all these operations the one and the same spirit performs, making a distribution to each one respectively just as it wills."

    Significantly, not all anointed ones back then had miraculous gifts of the spirit

    . In 1 Corinthians chapter 14, Paul mentioned a congregation meeting in which one had the gift of tongues, but no one present had the gift of translation. Nonetheless, at some earlier point, each one of them had experienced anointing with spirit. Would it be reasonable to say that the brother having the gift of tongues had more of the spirit than others present? No. Those other anointed ones were not disadvantaged, as if unable to understand the Bible as well as that one or unable to face trials as well. The spirit operated in a special way on the brother who could speak in tongues. Still, he and they needed to stay close to Jehovah and to "keep getting filled with spirit," as Paul wrote.Ephesians 5:18.

    Regarding those of the remnant today, they certainly have received Gods spirit. At one point it operated on them in a special wayat the time when they were anointed and adopted as spiritual sons. Thereafter they "keep getting filled with spirit," having its help when they seek to understand the Bible more clearly, take the lead in the preaching work, or face testspersonal or organizational.

    Members of the "other sheep," though not having had the experience of being anointed, in other respects do receive holy spirit. TheWatchtower of April 15, 1952, observed:

    "The other sheep today perform the same preaching work as the remnant, under the same trying conditions, and manifest the same faithfulness and integrity. They feed at the same spiritual table, eating the same food, absorbing the same truths.

    Being of the earthly class, with earthly hopes and a keen interest in earthly things, they might interest themselves more in scriptures relating to earthly conditions in the new world; whereas the anointed remnant, with heavenly hopes and strong personal interest in the things of the spirit, might study more diligently those things in Gods Word. . . . Yet the fact remains that the same truths and the same understanding are available to both classes, and it is just how the individuals apply themselves in study that determines the comprehension of heavenly and earthly things they acquire. The Lords spirit is available in equal portions to both classes, and knowledge and understanding are offered equally to both,

    Edited by - Blondie on 2 December 2002 11:15:2

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    thanks for the quotes, blondie. I have always believed what the quotes indicate, that spirit operates on both, but publications lately and the baptism vows lead me to think that they are backing away from it.

    Of course, in my paranoia I am thinking that Ted is drawing more power to himself and the GB by limiting the flow of spirit to the rest of us, or maybe just that they get a special dose of spirit.

    I will research and post again.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Right now there are more anointed than god has supposed jobs for,and the numbers continue to grow..The only spirit they recieve comes out of a bottle,LOL! ...OUTLAW

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I am mightily confused about this myself. Because of my background, I assumed that by calling the 144,000 the Anointed, that these ones had exclusive right to be Anointed by the Holy Spirit. That is, the Holy Spirit residing in our hearts.

    Now he that establisheth us with you in Christ, and anointed us, is God; who also sealed us, and gave us the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. 2 Corinthians 1:21, 22 ASV

    All other references to Anointed point to Jesus. Since the "other crowd" in Revelation are not in the holy of holies, but congregated around it, do they have direct access, according to WT doctrine, to the Holy Spirit?

    And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour forth of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: Acts 2:17 ASV

    And Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptised, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for remission of sins, and ye will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For to you is the promise and to your children, and to all who are
    afar off, as many as the Lord our God may call. Acts 2:38, 39 ASV

    Edited by - jgnat on 2 December 2002 13:50:14

    Edited by - jgnat on 2 December 2002 13:51:12

  • rebel
    rebel

    Apparently there were approx 1 million Christians by the end of the first century. By the end of the third century, there were roughly 3 or 4 million (these figures are from a history of Christianity book - can't remember it offhand - read it on another posting board). What I want to know is, if the early first century Christians were all supposed to be anointed (that's what I was taught by JWs), how come God could not find 144,000 out of these ones? I mean, these were the ones who were with Christ, they were thrown to lions, beaten in gladiator fights, burned as street lamps etc. Are the 'anointed' today saying they are just as good, if not better, than these true early Christians? Why would God not choose his anointed from those early, genuine ones who really did face persecution? They didn't live cushy lives, drive around in flash cars, get pampered left, right and centre. They had to fight for survival and their beliefs. Why does the WT say that Satan is targetting the anointed ones on earth today? How are they being treated any worse than us ordinary, earthly mortals? Why would God wait until today to finish sealing the 144,000 by choosing a bunch of misfits when he could have sealed them all by the end of the first century? Sorry to have so many 'whys', but I have often wondered this.

    xxR

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    Great questions and posts, thanks.
    I believe that we all can have holy spirit, but it seems that the WT is pulling back on that idea.

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