Proclaiming Jah's name

by SixofNine 12 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  SixofNine

  In terms of cold, hard, non-partisan evidence, (and I realize that will eliminate some of yours' ability to respond) what are the arguments for how much or how little emphasis Jesus, primarily, and secondarily the early Christians, put on using and promulgating the divine name?

  Jesus words "let your name be sanctified" come to mind immediatly, but what did that seem to mean to Jesus, and how often did he seem to use the divine name?

  I am vaguely aware of the arguements that the NWT went overboard in "reinserting" the divine name.

  Edited by - SixofNine on 17 December 2000 15:18:58
• 

  waiting

  Hello Six,

  That's a good question you proposed. Do you wish to discuss it? If so, which side of the discussion are you on - and would you be so kind as to put forth your evidence?

  Then I'd gladly read about the discussion, and your fine points.

  When you're putting forth your argument - pro or con - I'm sure you'll find much information on Research on the Watchtower, and any sites and/or books published by Randy Watters. Please list your sources of information so that I can read your information in it's entirety.

  After all, much of a Biblical discussion is in the research, don't you agree?

  Looking forward to your response, and nice to meet you.

  waiting
• 

  RR

  Well anyone with a good interlinear will see that the name of God appears nowhere in the New Testament, except in its shorten form 'Jah' in the book of Revelation.

  Thus the arguments of the Society that Jesus and the early disciples went around telling people God's name is Jehovah is unwarranted.

  "People in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones"
• 

  Pathofthorns

  Hey RR. Was wondering to what extent Russell used Jehovah, or was this something that Rutherford highlighted? Thanks.

  Path
• 

  SixofNine

  After all, much of a Biblical discussion is in the research, don't you agree?

  Actually, for me, no, not really. lol ;) But I am willing to admit that that is not one of my more admirable qualities.

  Really, I was hoping someone like Waiting would step up with some pre-processed research for my disorganized mind. Obviously, she was having none of it. Nice to meet you as well, I said hello over on the filthy sex hello hello thread.

  So, I had to go find this: http://www.caic.org.au/theology/jehovah.htm

  I still wonder what "let your name be sanctified" really meant to Jesus.
• 

  waiting

  Hey Six,

  I'm a mother. My kids tried that "question - why don't you look it up for me" trick many a time.

  Very seldom did they sucker me. It wasn't my strong point either.

  Again, nice to meet you. Thanks for the click.

  waiting

  Edited by - waiting on 18 December 2000 0:12:47
• 

  ianao

  "let your name be sanctified". Interesting thought. Here is my slant:

  From websters.com:

  Main Entry: sanc·ti·fy
  Pronunciation: -"fI
  Function: transitive verb
  Inflected Form(s): -fied; -fy·ing
  Etymology: Middle English sanctifien, from Middle French sanctifier, from Late Latin sanctificare, from Latin sanctus sacred -- more at SAINT
  Date: 14th century
  1 : to set apart to a sacred purpose or to religious use : CONSECRATE
  2 : to free from sin : PURIFY
  3 a : to impart or impute sacredness, inviolability, or respect to b : to give moral or social sanction to
  4 : to make productive of holiness or piety <observe the day of the sabbath, to sanctify it -- Deut 5:12 (Douay Version)>

  Seems to me that Jesus wanted his Father's NAME to be sanctified. You cannot scanctify something if you do not know what it is. Scanctifying God's proper name is NOT something that is done by omitting it in ignorant supersticion.

  Then again, fearing God so much as to not dare to use his sacred name for fear of mispronouncing it would be a form of sanctification, although it goes agains Jesus' entire ministry letting his Father be known as the one TRUE God. :)

  Interesting, eh?

  -ianao
• 

  Pathofthorns

  Its interesting that Jesus doesn't use God's name in any of the prayers by him that are recorded. One would think that he would have used God's name all the time, but nothing in the Bible exists to support this. We have to make assumptions beyond what is written.

  Path
• 

  ianao

  Its interesting that Jesus doesn't use God's name in any of the prayers by him that are recorded. One would think that he would have used God's name all the time, but nothing in the Bible exists to support this. We have to make assumptions beyond what is written.

  Hello again Path. :)

  Do a little reasearch on the NT in any encyclopedia, and look up the origins of the divine name, YHVH, or JHVH. You will find that supersticious translators are at fault for not scribing the divine name.

  Also please note that Jesus was trying to sanctify the NAME of his father, and I KNOW it was not LORD. The closest approximation is the Jewish Yahweh or the english Jehovah. Also please look at the front of any bible you read that uses LORD in the OT, and you will see that anywhere you see LORD, you are seeing a substitution of Jehovah or Yahweh (i.e. the divine name), except maybe a few places in certain 'versions', e.g. KJV.

  Look in the new testament in the gospels and in other parts for places where references were made to writings in the old testament. The quote is made from a place that DID render the divine name, and you can tell because the OT reference will read LORD.

  Many instances of this confused me in the KJV NT, leaving me wondering why God would write: 'and The Lord said to my lord...'. After doing the reference check in the OT of the SAME BIBLE, I found that it was quoting an instance said to David: 'and The LORD said to my lord...'. This made NO SENSE to me until I read the front of the Bible and realized that LORD was substituted for YHWH. I then read the OT statement: 'and The YHWH said to my lord'.

  Then I was left with "What the heck is 'The YHWH?'". To make a long story short, after studying some Koine Greek and a little Hebrew, I realized that the 'The' was inserted in the OT text because of the indistinct noun LORD, and was never in the original text. I then realized that the statement in the OT should read: 'and YHWH said to my lord', properly using a name in the english language. I then read the quote as Jesus would have read it in the days of his ministry, and I realized that he indeed DID use the divine name.

  After a little research, I discovered that many of the earliest MS text that compose our new testament were burned in the 1st or 2nd century after Christ's resurrection, and we based our book on NEWER texts, as most of the burned copies were destroyed. After learning about the supersticious scholars who refused to scribe the divine name, I realized that this is probably what happened with the NT texts that we use today. After I found out that this was the VERY REASON for the WTBTS' rendering of the nonexistant divine name in the NT texts of the NWT, I realized I was reading a slanted translation when I was reading the KJV or other dirivitives. (NIV, ASB, etc.)
  

  -ianao
• 

  RR

  Was wondering to what extent Russell used Jehovah, or was this something that Rutherford highlighted?

  Although Russell did use the name 'Jehovah' on occasion, he did not use it as excessively as Rutherford or the SOciety today. You are right, the whole thing was Rutherford's.

  Russell was in fact a 'Witness of Jesus' as he believed the Jews were Jehovah's witnesses, and rightfully so.

  "People in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones"