Dishonesty - The Awake's selective quotation concerning Carbon-14 Dating

by VM44 9 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • VM44
    VM44

    Here is how the Awake! reported on a news story concerning the "inaccuracies" in Carbon-14 Dating.

    Compare it with the actual New York Times article from where the story was obtained. See what the Awake! writer decided not to mention.

    **g9012/22p.28WatchingtheWorld***

    Watching the World

    INACCURATE DATING

    For decades, historians and paleontologists have often relied on radiocarbon dating to estimate the age of fossils. However, according to Time magazine, "those estimates, while valuable, are also known to be somewhat uncertain." The magazine added that "carbon 14 levels in the air—and thus the amount ingested by organisms—are known to vary over time, and that can affect the results of carbon dating." After comparing the results of a carbon-14 test with a uranium-thorium test, a group of geologists at the Lamont-Doherty Geological Laboratory in Palisades, New York, found that the "radiocarbon dates may be off by as much as 3,500 years—possibly enough to force a change in current thinking on such important questions as exactly when humans first reached the Americas."

  • VM44
    VM44
    The New York Times May 31, 1990

    ERRORS ARE FEARED IN CARBON DATING

    By MALCOLM W. BROWNE

    LEAD: Since 1947, scientists have reckoned the ages of many old objects by measuring the amounts of radioactive carbon they contain. New research shows, however, that some estimates based on carbon may have erred by thousands of years.

    Since 1947, scientists have reckoned the ages of many old objects by measuring the amounts of radioactive carbon they contain. New research shows, however, that some estimates based on carbon may have erred by thousands of years.

    It is too soon to know whether the discovery will seriously upset the estimated dates of events like the arrival of human beings in the Western Hemisphere, scientists said. But it is already clear that the carbon method of dating will have to be recalibrated and corrected in some cases.

    Scientists at the Lamont-Doherty Geological Laboratory of Columbia University at Palisades, N.Y., reported today in the British journal Nature that some estimates of age based on carbon analyses were wrong by as much as 3,500 years. They arrived at this conclusion by comparing age estimates obtained using two different methods - analysis of radioactive carbon in a sample and determination of the ratio of uranium to thorium in the sample. In some cases, the latter ratio appears to be a much more accurate gauge of age than the customary method of carbon dating, the scientists said.

    In principle, any material of plant or animal origin, including textiles, wood, bones and leather, can be dated by its content of carbon 14, a radioactive form of carbon in the environment that is incorporated by all living things. Because it is radioactive, carbon 14 steadily decays into other substances. But when a plant or animal dies, it can no longer accumulate fresh carbon 14, and the supply in the organism at the time of death is gradually depleted.

    Since the rate of depletion has been accurately determined (half of any given amount of carbon 14 decays in 5,730 years), scientists can calculate the time elapsed since something died from its residual carbon 14.

    Dating Subject to Error

    But scientists have long recognized that carbon dating is subject to error because of a variety of factors, including contamination by outside sources of carbon. Therefore they have sought ways to calibrate and correct the carbon dating method. The best gauge they have found is dendrochronology: the measurement of age by tree rings.

    Accurate tree ring records of age are available for a period extending 9,000 years into the past. But the tree ring record goes no further, so scientists have sought other indicators of age against which carbon dates can be compared. One such indicator is the uranium-thorium dating method used by the Lamont-Doherty group.

    Uranium 234, a radioactive element present in the environment, slowly decays to form thorium 230. Using a mass spectrometer, an instrument that accelerates streams of atoms and uses magnets to sort them out according to mass and electric charge, the group has learned to measure the ratio of uranium to thorium very precisely.

    The Lamont-Doherty scientists conducted their analyses on samples of coral drilled from a reef off the island of Barbados. The samples represented animals that lived at various times during the last 30,000 years.

    Uranium-Thorium Dating

    Dr. Alan Zindler, a professor of geology at Columbia University who is a member of the Lamont-Doherty research group, said age estimates using the carbon dating and uranium-thorium dating differed only slightly for the period from 9,000 years ago to the present. ''But at earlier times, the carbon dates were substantially younger than the dates we estimated by uranium-thorium analysis,'' he said. ''The largest deviation, 3,500 years, was obtained for samples that are about 20,000 years old.''

    One reason the group believes the uranium-thorium estimates to be more accurate than carbon dating is that they produce better matches between known changes in the Earth's orbit and changes in global glaciation.

    According to carbon dating of fossil animals and plants, the spreading and receding of great ice sheets lagged behind orbital changes by several thousand years, a delay that scientists found hard to explain. But Dr. Richard G. Fairbanks, a member of the Lamont-Doherty group, said that if the dates of glaciation were determined using the uranium-thorium method, the delay - and the puzzle - disappeared.

    The group theorizes that large errors in carbon dating result from fluctuations in the amount of carbon 14 in the air. Changes in the Earth's magnetic field would change the deflection of cosmic-ray particles streaming toward the Earth from the Sun. Carbon 14 is thought to be mainly a product of bombardment of the atmosphere by cosmic rays, so cosmic ray intensity would affect the amount of carbon 14 in the environment at any given time. #30,000-Year Limit The Lamont-Doherty group says uranium-thorium dating not only is more precise than carbon dating in some cases, but also can be used to date much older objects. Carbon dating is unreliable for objects older than about 30,000 years, but uranium-thorium dating may be possible for objects up to half a million years old, Dr. Zindler said. The method is less suitable, however, for land animals and plants than for marine organisms, because uranium is plentiful in sea water but less so in most soils.

    But even if the method is limited to marine organisms, it will be extremely useful for deciphering the history of Earth's climate, ice, oceans and rocks, Dr. Fairbanks said.

  • VM44
    VM44

    I wonder why the Awake! writer didn't include the following?

    Dr. Alan Zindler, a professor of geology at Columbia University who is a member of the Lamont-Doherty research group, said age estimates using the carbon dating and uranium-thorium dating differed only slightly for the period from 9,000 years ago to the present.
  • Homerovah the Almighty
    Homerovah the Almighty

    Another devious misrepresentation of facts again, gee God's Organization is dishonest and untruthful

  • Awakened07
    Awakened07

    Creationists often think Carbon-14 dating is the only dating method used. They also 'forget' that science is always moving ahead, improving and making new discoveries all the time.

    This results in guys like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hlym0q5TLVI&mode=related&search=

    *WARNING* This video is embarrassing to watch if you know anything about... anything. *WARNING*

    Funny enough, this video is put up there by creationists, and they don't see how embarrassing it is, so it's still up there.

  • Gerard
    Gerard

    The day a WT "writer" obtains a degree in organic chemistry and a degree on physics, then I may give 3 minutes attention to his assessment of the already proven technique.

  • VM44
    VM44

    The Awake! mentioned that its source was "TIME" magazine, rather than "The New York Times" newspaper.

    So, here is the actual TIME article mentioned by the Awake! as the source of the information.

    TIME magazine, Monday, Jun. 11, 1990

    Mistaken by Millenniums

    Ever since its development in the 1940s, radiocarbon dating has been a vital tool for historians and paleontologists trying to pinpoint the ages of everything from ancient animal bones to prehistoric human settlements to Egyptian mummies. By measuring the decay of the natural radioactive isotope carbon 14, which almost all organisms ingest while they are alive, scientists can estimate how long it has been since an animal or plant died.

    But those estimates, while valuable, are also known to be somewhat uncertain. Last week geologists at the Lamont-Doherty Geological Laboratory in - Palisades, N.Y., offered firm evidence of just how uncertain. Writing in Nature, they showed that some radiocarbon dates may be off by as much as 3,500 years -- possibly enough to force a change in current thinking on such important questions as exactly when humans first reached the Americas.

    The technique the geologists used was based on another sort of radioactive decay. Organisms contain traces of uranium, which degrades into thorium. The rate of decay is known, and by measuring the relative amounts of the two substances in a sample, age can be accurately calculated.

    In this case, samples came from a coral reef off Barbados. Carbon 14 and uranium-thorium dating largely agreed for pieces of coral up to about 9,000 years old. But for older pieces the findings diverged, with a maximum disparity of 3,500 years for coral about 20,000 years old.

    Why did the scientists assume that the uranium-thorium tests were right and the carbon 14 tests wrong? For one thing, the carbon datings pointed to the strange conclusion that ice ages, thought to be related to changes in the earth's orbit around the sun, have mysteriously lagged behind those changes by a few thousand years. But uranium-thorium dating shows no such lag. Moreover, carbon 14 levels in the air -- and thus the amount ingested by organisms -- are known to vary over time, and that can affect the results of carbon dating.

    Uranium-thorium has another advantage besides accuracy: it can be used to date objects up to 500,000 years old, while carbon 14 is good for only a few tens of thousands of years at best. The one drawback of the uranium-thorium technique is that it is useful mostly for marine animals and plants; uranium is more common in seawater than on the surface of the land. Scientists will no doubt continue to use all possible dating methods in the quest to construct an ever more accurate chronology of the earth's history.

  • VM44
    VM44

    Two items from the TIME magazine article.

    Carbon 14 and uranium-thorium dating largely agreed for pieces of coral up to about 9,000 years old.
    ...while carbon 14 is good for only a few tens of thousands of years at best.

    So rather than being "3,500" years off, the Carbon-14 method appears to give consistent results with other dating methods for the last 10,000 years, which is the time interval of most interest to the Awake! and Watchtower writers.

  • monophonic
    monophonic

    probably another reason why no one at the wt or awake receives bylines for their articles, b/c they'd be held accountable for appropo journalism practices....when no one is credited in the writing, then people who have been, eh uhm, educated beyond cleanings floors for safeways, they could actually go, hmm, i can see why the writers don't want to be credited.

    so called 'worldly' publications have more of a conscience than the wt and awake.

    if only i could write for the wt, that would be a kick b/c i'm good at fiction.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Nice one VM..cut pasted and saved , for a future dub debate - Thanks

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit