by bite me 4 Replies latest watchtower bible
In Rev 5:14 of NWT it reads: ...the edlers fell down and worshiped
Who were they worshiping?
In Rev 5:14 of KJV (no.. I'm not KJV only, I also use NKJV hehe) it said
Four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that lived forever and ever.
In the NWT who is it, if it is not Jesus himself?
Really?
That seems to be an interpolation from 10:4, and if it is indeed in the textus receptus I don't know on which late manuscript it is based: the critical apparatus of Nestle-Aland 27 doesn't mention any variant...
According to the textual notes in Aune's commentary, the words zónti eis tous aiónas tón aiónón appear in v. 14 only in Andrew of Caesarea's commentary on Revelation (ca. AD 600), one single minuscule MS. (g 2045 , dating to the 13th century AD), and two 16th-century printed editions of the Textus Receptus (g 296 and g 2047 ).
That's as clear as it gets that a text is a scribal addition. I'd love to see the KJV-only folk side-step around this one.
Leolaia,
We have problems like this with all Bible versions and that is why we should be aware of their shortcomings. And we are dealing with something that involved both the Father and the Son. That was well brought out in many NT texts as well. So who was being worshiped here since they were both sitting together? Both of them. Check a version such as the NAS which says:
12 saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing." 13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." 14 And the four living creatures kept saying, "Amen." And the elders fell down and worshiped.
The Lamb that was slain is now somebody that has received power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing. And we should know that God always had such qualities which also were recognized here. So what do the elders do now? They worship them both in recogintion of such qualities. Is this a clash with verses that teach that we should not do that in other texts? No! At one time the Law changed our relationship with God and ended. This sacrifice then changed our relationship with God and continues. Rules regarding worship are not so rigid that they cannot be altered at some future time as such things take place. So there is no problem with this. Only for those that want to argue like Trinitarians that do not seem to understand what is really going on and have no idea where the holy spirit went. Just what do any of us think that we would do when this King our savior returns here to earth to rule? Do you think that we will just stand in His presence and refuse to fall down if this is expected of us? What God allows to be done at such a time is not something we question is it?
Joseph
I agree that the Lamb's investiture in ch. 5 involves his worship together with the one sitting on the throne (v. 13); as Aune points out, the scene "reads like a dramatization of the conclusion of the hymn in Phil 2:5-11, where in v 10 it is said that 'at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth' " (Vol. 1, p. 367). My comment only pertains to the form of the text in v. 14, which is a clear instance of the TR not following the primitive text.
