144,000 resurrected BEFORE Jesus rose?

by tula 65 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  tula

  According to Matthew 27:52-53

  (This occurred during the time when Jesus was being crucified)

  "and the memorial tombs were opened and many bodies of the holy ones that had fallen asleep were raised up, (and persons coming out from among the memorial tombs after his being raised up, entered into the holy city,) and they became visible to many people."

  This cataclysmic event is mentioned NOWHERE else in the bible. Are these the 144,000 holy ones that were spoken of in the Old Testament?

  It seems to me they would be the 144,000. If Jesus left the earth because he had another job to do, certainly he would need his work force at that time.

  Is there anything in the scriptures to substantiate that the resurrection of the 144,000 would be a gradual continuing event? I can't find any evidence of that.

  But this one verse, shows a grand resurrection at what could be considered a "proper time", accompanied by a great earthquake (trumpet!!)

  The verses preceding this occurance:

  27:48 sponge with sour wine put on reed to offer Jesus drink

  27:49 a man took a spear and pierced his side and blood and water came out

  27:50 Jesus cried out and yielded up his spirit

  27:51 sanctuary was rent in two, earthquake, rock masses split

  27:52 dead resurrected

  27:53 resurrected became visible to many people

  (after Jesus was resurrected, those from memorial tomb entered the holy city)

  OUT OF LUCK. The 144,000 were chosen long ago from those JEHOVAH himself favored. They are long gone. They have all entered the holy city. Heaven is not taking any more bids for sainthood!
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  yknot

  I alway took this to mean, that once Jesus had risen then those of the 144,000 those whom had already died, were awakened and given spirit bodies and followed Jesus. Them being visible I assumed was to be a testament that Jesus was God's Son and the Messiah. I am under the impression, that once one of the "annointed" died, that they too recieved immediate resurrection into a spirit body and went to work for Jesus in Heaven. That this continues until their filling during Tribulation. But this is just mho.
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  tula

  where are the scriptures to "prove" that this resurrection is an on-going continuation?

  It seems to me that episodes of such great importance and significance are singular events unto themselves.
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  JCanon

  where are the scriptures to "prove" that this resurrection is an on-going continuation?

  It seems to me that episodes of such great importance and significance are singular events unto themselves.

  Those resurrected from the tombs during Jesus time were resurrected in their own bodies as was Lazarus. Generally, this is thought of as a temporary resurrection and that they would later die of old age, etc. But why resurrect these people if they would only die again? The critical reason is because it was only after Jesus' death and his arrival in heaven that holy spirit could be sent to anoint the saints into the kingdom. This was not possible prior to Jesus' own death. So there was pressure to try and remain alive at least until after Jesus died. Obviously some missed the mark by a short time. So by bringing some of these recently died ones back to life in their own bodies, they could then get anointed by holy spirit 45 days later on Pentecost.

  SOME TECHNICAL NOTES ONLY: For one, the 144,000 represents the entire body of Christ's Bride Class, some of whom would be alive when he arrived. Thus only those who had died would need to be resurrected, and thus that is not synonymous with the entire 144,000 but only a part of that number. But that is a detail incidental to the discussion certainly.

  RAISING TO SPIRIT LIFE: Finally, the conversion into spirit life during the so-called "rapture" doesn't happen until death is destroyed in the lake of fire and that is long after the millennium is over. Thus those resurrected during the first resurrection are resurrected back into the flesh again first (they are sown in a physical body) and then later, over 1000 years later!, after Judgment Day, is when they become angels. Basically, when their work on the earth is done judging the world and serving as hands-on king-priests, then they get to go to heaven. Nobody goes to heaven before then. When Satan is kicked out of heaven and down to the earth, Christ returns into the flesh at that time as well. So Christ, Satan, the demon angels and all the saints are on the earth during the millennium. Satan is destroyed after the millennium testing, probably lasting about 40 years. After that Judgment Day, perhaps as long as 80 years ensues. When that is over and death is no more then the "rapture" takes place and all the saints are changed in the twinkling of an eye into spirit beings along with the Christ who then returns to spirit form.

  1 COR 15: 54 But when [this which is corruptible puts on incorruption and] this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying will take place that is written: “Death is swallowed up forever.” 55 “Death, where is your victory? Death, where is your sting?”

  As you can see from above, the spiritual bodies are not attained until after everyone is judged and there is no more death possible.

  Those raised at the time of Jesus' death were likely some recently buried, people recognizable by those still living who now had a chance to receive holy spirit at Pentecost, but would then die later on after that.

  JC
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  tula

  Those raised at the time of Jesus' death were likely some recently buried, people recognizable by those still living who now had a chance to receive holy spirit at Pentecost, but would then die later on after that.

  JC that epistle of yours is so totally made up by your over active imagination.

  You do not support any of those "ideas" with scripture.

  And this last statement that those resurrected hung out until pentecost, is NOT what the scripture says. The scripture, if you bother to read the Bible instead of your own "world according to garth' version.....

  Generally, this is thought of as a temporary resurrection and that they would later die of old age, etc.

  says they entered the holy city. They did not wander the earth to die twice to die again. This is such absurdity.
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  Narkissos

  This is one of the first narrative expressions of a widespread early Christian doctrine about Jesus' "descent to 'hell'" (infernum = she'ol, hades, the underworld), one effect of which is releasing the "ancient righteous". The awkward "after his resurrection" was most likely inserted later, in an attempt to harmonise this doctrine with the Pauline (and post-Pauline) depiction of Christ as "firstfruits / firstborn of the dead".

  The 144,000 otoh are specific to Revelation, and they have nothing to do with this topic imo: in context they are not figures of the past, they are still being sealed.
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  tula

  The 144,000 otoh are specific to Revelation

  I dont know what "otoh" means....but the 144,000 is not specific to revelation. The 144,000 are also mentioned in the old testament. It might take me some time to look it up for proof. Maybe someone else knows where to find it in OT?
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  Narkissos

  Otoh means "on the other hand" and, yes, I'm afraid it will take you some time...
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  JosephMalik

  Tula,

  The event actually reads more like this: 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

  So it was an earthquake that broke rocks. Well what do you think would happen?

  52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

  The bodies of the saints came out of their resting places in the tombs cut into these rocks. They were resurrected physically and mechanically because of this earthquake but still dead of course. Jewish custom required that they be prepared for re-burial so they went into the holy city and appeared unto many. Who carried them and how is not stated. But it was just hours before a great Sabbath so this had to be done quickly.

  54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

  That awful spiritualist called Greber brought this out in his translation and of course no one will touch it with a ten foot pole. But we know enough about the resurrection to know it did not happen then. For example: 2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. Knowing this we should think of more realistic reasons for the event like the ones already stated about an earthquake.

  Joseph
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  greendawn

  I believe Revelation is about the Christian church and not the pre christian faithful. So the 144 000 have to somehow relate to the saints of the church. Revelation describes their war against the powers of satan and their final triumph over those forces.
  
  The resurrection in the gospel of Matthew sounds spurious to me, more like a myth that was added later on and was not in the original. Narkissos should be aware of such issues.