JWs: "YOU must pray, then, this way: 'Our Father...'"

AuldSoul

Matthew 6:9 — "YOU must pray, then, this way: ‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.'" (NWT)

We know the Bible shows Jesus praying to his Father, but who is our Father?

Isaiah 9:6 — For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Hmm. Is Jesus a false God? Who is he the Father of, if not Christians?

I think this is an important question for JWs to answer. For all their efforts to make sure Jesus' Father is kept supreme, their doctrine surely tends to reduce Jesus to a position far below the position to which his Father elevated him.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

megsmomma

It was amazing to me that I always thought the Trinity did not make sense....Thw whole 1+1+1=1 thingy they teach....Well...It took me about 3 days of researching on my own that I DO believe...and it is clear to me that Jehovah God came down as Jesus....and sacraficed himself for us...and our sins.

Finally-Free

As a JW I didn't try to answer it because it raised even more questions, like 'is Michael the archangel also our eternal father and mighty God'?

Once you eliminate the constant repitition of JW doctrine it stops making sense very quickly.

W

Zico

I read in their Revelation book last night that they actually admit to lowering Jesus. It tells us that in their first song book, there were twice as many songs about Jesus as there were about Jehovah. In the second, they had equal amounts, and in the most recent, they had four times as many songs about Jehovah as they did about Jesus. I strongly believe, that talks and general conversation between JWs mention 'The Society' more than they do Jesus. I actually paid a lot of attention to this at the 2-day Assembly I went to last September, and noted that five talks went by without mentioning Jesus, whereas not one talk went by where they didn't use terms like 'The Organisation' 'God's Organisation' 'The Society' or 'The Faithful and Discreet slave' I also noted that when people related experiences, it seemed customary to thank Jehovah and his Organisation for helping them to deal with a problem, and never to thank Jesus. I also think the 'Faithful and discreet slave' get more credit than Jesus in prayer, as they are almost always thanked 'for the spiritual food/programme they've provided us' Whereas Jesus usually only gets his forced, obligatory mention at the end of a prayer. The Society have not only relegated Jesus far below Jehovah, they have discreetly relegated him below themselves.

AuldSoul

zico: I also think the 'Faithful and discreet slave' get more credit than Jesus in prayer, as they are almost always thanked 'for the spiritual food/programme they've provided us'

I had thought of this, too. But I tied it to Moses drawing water from the rock at Meribah and taking the credit for himself. Thanks for the new angle!

drew sagan

This is more of a side discussion, but I think it goes along with what is being discussed.

Think about how they fight the idea of prayer to Jesus. What they do is create an idea about prayer that actually does not fit their own beliefs on how things are. Take these simple questions a JW can answer yes to.

- Did people go to Jesus while he was on earth and ask him for things?

JW: Yes

- Did Jesus give things to those who asked in faith?

JW: Yes

- Did Jesus say people should come to him?

JW: Yes, In a sense...

- Is Jesus alive today?

JW: Yes

- Is Jesus just as alive now as he was when he walked the earth?

JW: Yes

- If Jesus is just as alive as he was when he walked the earth what is the differance if somebody asks him for something in our modern age? Isn't he as real as he was today as when he walked the earth 2000 years ago?

JW: Ummmm.....

----------

I think what the JWs do is forget that they believe Jesus is an actual person. In addtion they are so concerned in giving everything to 'Jehovah' that they force themselves into downplaying the role os Jesus. By doing so they seem not to realize that there really is no differance between those who asked Jesus for things when he walked the earth and when he went to heaven. What really changed? Why was Jesus able to give things to people while he was here when they asked, but not when he goes to heaven? Why did the Watchtower Jesus get a demotion?

-Drew

greendawn

It has to be due to some strange judaic influence, let's not forget the judeomasons helped the JWs (then Bible students) get off the ground and Russell was very pro jewish and perhaps himself of jewish origin. The NT clearly states that the Father gave the son the earth as his inheritance that means he is the new owner of the earth, he purchased the church with his blood and it belongs to him. The dubs completely ignore this shift that took place relative to the old testament and still act as if jehovah is the direct owner of the earth and the church and the central figure in the life of the believer, though as we all know they hardly ever talk about the church and instead refer to the organisation (or even worse in the past, to the corporation). I would say they are judaisers in disguise.

AuldSoul

greendawn: I would say they are judaisers in disguise.

Wow! They should have picked a better costume person, then, because disguises are supposed to hide your true identity. Their Judaic mindset is glaringly apparent.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

agapa37

Gods own words---- " Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: "This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved." Matthew 3:17

Jesus own words----"Most truly I say to YOU, The hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live. For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself. John 5:25

Jesus own words----"because I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me. This is the will of him that sent me, that I should lose nothing out of all that he has given me but that I should resurrect it at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone that beholds the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him at the last day." John 6:38-40

His followers own words----- "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." In response Jesus said to him: "Happy you are, Simon son of Jo´nah, because flesh and blood did not reveal [it] to you, but my Father who is in the heavens did." Matthew 16:13

His own follower-----"To be sure, Jesus performed many other signs also before the disciples, which are not written down in this scroll. But these have been written down that YOU may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, YOU may have life by means of his name." John 20:30

Jesus enemy-----"But the army officer and those with him watching over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things happening, grew very much afraid, saying: "Certainly this was God’s Son."Matthew 27:54

I can go on and on. There are hundreds of references such as the examples I cited that clearly show Jesus being, not God, but the son of God. God said Jesus was his son, his disciples said he was Gods son, Jesus enemies knew Jesus to be Gods son and Jesus himself said he was Gods son. I chose to believe them! How about you?

greendawn

To us it is very obvious but to the dubs that are in, it is not at all that way and I am astonished that it is not, they don't even find it difficult (or embarassing) to call themselves Christians when they, the so called great crowd, are not even part of the New Covenent mediated by Christ, according to their GB. It is worth noting the crucial element in their judaic mentality is that they perceive God as a Lord just like the Jews under the Mosaic law. For Christians he is a Father through the adoption by the Spirit. But those that are under the letter of the law, as the JWs, are dead they are under a curse.

JWs: "YOU must pray, then, this way: 'Our Father...'"

Share this